Imperfection isn't the problem. The problem is accountability.

by AllTimeJeff 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    OTWO

    I don't know if you would agree with me, but even nominal JW's have a real tendency to never address the question or topic at hand. Their minds work like a funnel, and it always goes back to an argument that they can tackle. Concepts seem lost on most.

    If you will notice, my opening salvo here focused on those points of dogma that do the most damage, such as failed prophecy. Reinaa, like other JW's would, tried to change the focus to a more JW friendly topic, like smoking. She herself admits this....

    I Picked smoking because it has the added effect of being bad for other people's health too like still-births etc, I myself got a disease from years of passive smoking other peoples smoke. I actually think one day the governments may ban smoking alltogether from the sheer health costs of looking after people who deliberately hurt there bodies that way.

    Ok, pick one topic that most people know. And you know what? Most people are not banned from associating with friends and family if that one smokes a cigerette, thus breaking up families and causing great anguish over the personal decision to smoke.

    The accountability in this instance ISN'T smoking, its how the GB uses smoking as a control mechanism through the real issue, that of shunning a person because of a habit that isn't specifically commented on or condemned in the bible.

    The GB FORBIDS the association of a JW who smokes. THEY INSIST ON IT. Horrible damage is done to the person and families in this instance.

    Meanwhile, the GB makes a law, causes damage, and walks away.

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    The whole issue of the GB's lack of accountability ties into the the issue of whether the GB claimed to be a prophet. Witnesses will bend over backwards, twisting and contorting the English language desperately trying absolve the WTS/GB of any responsibility for being a false prophet. Here in the U.S., we would describe this as "Clinton-esque" after former President Bill Clinton who was known to parse words and famously said "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

    This is the way I see it: talk is cheap, actions matter. The WTS and its followers can say that the GB is not a prophet until they're blue in the face. But what do the actions bear out? Well, as pointed out in the WT quotes in the original post, Witnesses are required to follow the GB/FDS and what it teaches. They are not permitted to follow the GB only sometimes...rather it must be complete adherence. They are required to believe and teach the current understanding as set forth in the WT--no deviation. Thus, Witnesses are required to treat the words of the GB as if they were inspired--just like the Bible.

    So the WTS/GB is doing an excellent job of "having its cake and eating it too." They get all of the benefit of being an inspired prophet--100% devotion and adherence--without any of the responsibility and accountability.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Fantastic summary Jeff. "Independent thinking" is the GB's biggest bungaboo, yet as you pointed out, they demand that everyone else scrutinize their own religions' doctrines by means of 'independent thinking'. I just love these gems from the 1957 & 1958 Watchtower:

    "...Moreover, people today are developing an aversion to thinking. They fear being alone with their own thoughts. If other people are not around, they fill the void with television, movies, light reading matter, or if they go to the beach or park the portable radio goes too so they will not have to be with their own thoughts. Their thinking must be channeled for them, ready-made by propagandists. This suits Satan’s purpose. He deluges the mass mind with anything and everything but God’s truth. To keep minds from doing godly thinking Satan keeps them busy with thoughts that are either trivial or ungodly. It is tailor-made thinking, and the tailor of it is the Devil. Minds work, but in the way that a horse is led. Independent thinking is difficult, unpopular and even suspect. Thought conformity is the order of our day. To seek solitude for meditation is frowned upon as antisocial and neurotic."----August 1, 1957 Watchtower p. 469 par. 7

    "... Fear has a great hold on the people. People are afraid of what their neighbors, their friends, relatives and clergy might think if they were even so much as to read the Bible on their own. For centuries the clergy have dominated their lives, told them what they can read, what they should believe and do.To ask a sound religious question is a demonstration of lack of faith in God and the church, according to the clergy. As a result, the Irish people do very little independent thinking. They are victims of the clergy and fear; but freedom is in sight."-----August 1, 1958 Watchtower p. 460

    Yet they do a complete 360 when it comes to scrutinizing their own bizarre doctrines:

    Avoid Independent Thinking

    From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God's way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. ‘You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,' Satan told Eve. ‘You don't have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.' (Genesis 3:1-5) To this day, it has been Satan's subtle design to infect God's people with this type of thinking.-2 Timothy 3:1, 13. How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.----January 15, 1983 Watchtower p. 22

    As we study the Bible we learn that Jehovah has always guided his servants in an organized way. And just as in the first century there was only one true Christian organization, so today Jehovah is using only one organization. (Ephesians 4:4, 5; Matthew 24:45-47) Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?

    Such thinking is an evidence of pride. And the Bible says: "Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling." (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: "Where did we learn Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God's organization?" No, we cannot!----January 15, 1983 Watchtower p. 27 pars 19-20

    Not that they've got a double standard or anything.

    Smileys

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Renia said:

    Hi Isaac,

    Paul clearly added things to what Jesus said and was obeyed the principle is that the leaders teach things in line with Jesus's teachings of principles. Like with smoking being wrong as it is destroying the temple of your body etc.

    My reply:

    Smoking is certainly debatable both ways. It is for the individual conscience, not leaders to bound up a law that must be followed. Regarding your comment on Paul- I do not deny apostolic authority. But I do not, and neithe does the WT endorse, apostolic succession. The leadership of church elders and authority is not of the same level as apostolic authority. The point is that if the teachings are clearly in line with Jesus then yes, obey. Blind obedience on things that do not seem to make sense? That goes against everything jesus taught.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    Smoking is certainly debatable both ways. It is for the individual conscience, not leaders to bound up a law that must be followed. Regarding your comment on Paul- I do not deny apostolic authority. But I do not, and neithe does the WT endorse, apostolic succession. The leadership of church elders and authority is not of the same level as apostolic authority. The point is that if the teachings are clearly in line with Jesus then yes, obey. Blind obedience on things that do not seem to make sense? That goes against everything jesus taught.

    Isaac, I feel you and know why you responded, but none of this has anything to do with the GB's accountability for their doctrines.

    What Jesus taught in the gospels isn't the point either, its about the GB's exegesis, interpretation, dogma having such a powerful influence, the proverbial iron fist in a velvet glove, only to walk away and said that its all on everyone else, not them. Thats the problem.

    At least in matters of dogma, most Christians can debate, disagree, and still associate with their family and friends.. Not if you are a JW... The GB made sure of that...

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Mary, toward the end of my JW existence, I would re-read those quotes. Some CO's would use them to use as conversation starters at the door. And I realized full well that if the householder asked me if I could do the same thing, I knew I couldn't.

    The GB wants everyone to examine EVERYTHING closely, except their own dirty laundry. Then you are an evil apostate.... Whatever...

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Great essay Jeff.

    At the Friday session of the DC this year, there were multiple talks about Jehovah being the great "timekeeper". They had the hutzpah to actually mention 1925 & 1975.

    Who got it wrong? According to the speaker:

    "Some Jehovah's Witnesses".

    Never "We" , "The Watchtower", "The Slave Class", etc.

    Even my wife picked up on this arrogance and lack of accountability and mentioned it to me privately.

    Thanks again Jeff,

    om

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    Who got it wrong? According to the speaker: "Some Jehovah's Witnesses".

    Yes. That is the lying truth. Of course, those "some Jehovah's Witnesses" include Rutherford, Knorr, Franz. So it is the truth, its just that they forgot to name names....

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    ATJ..

    Great thread....

    It`s absolutely insane for the WBT$ make horrific mistakes..Then say,WBT$ leaders are imperfect so it`s all right..

    Try saying that to a police officer,after he`s pulled you over for driving while drunk..LOL!!

    "I'm imperfect officer,so everything is all right..My house is just around the corner..I`m too drunk to walk,so I`ll be on my way"..LOL!!

    The WBT$ carrys on like a frigg`n drunk,that is oblivious to it`s drunken state.....And..There is no one to police them..In Watchtower World the WBT$ is the police!!

    If I were to believe the WBT$ is the Spokesman for God......I would also have to believe in an UnItelligent Supreme being..LOL!!

    You`d have to be a complete idiot to put the WBT$ in charge of anything!!..LOL!!

    You did a good job on keeping control of your thread..If more posters realized the power they have,in the control of thier thread.......The number of Hi-Jacked threads would drop dramaticly..

    ..........................OUTLAW

  • flipper
    flipper

    ALL TIME JEFF- The same accountability that elders require of rank and file JW members is not required of themselves. Why don't they use the excuse of " imperfection " when a rank and file member is hauled in for adultery, fornication, or some other alleged offense ? The brother or sister could just say, " I'm sorry elder so and so, my imperfection got the best of me today and I needed to get laid. " Like that would work.

    Yet although the GB and elders hold rank and file publishers accountable for their actions- the GB instructs elders to cover over child abuse by telling them to report ANY offenses first to the WT legal department so they can compartmentalize " how accountable " they want to be- control the accountability . And pedophiles continue attending witness meetings because nobody reports them to the police to hold THE PEDOPHILE accountable. So the ball of accountability is dropped from the very top of the organization downwards to the elders - and the rank and file suffer for it ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

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