Have memes been scientifically proven? (page 2)

passwordprotected

Scientific proof doesn't exist

Is that true? I've heard that some scientists doubt the Theory of Relativity and there are conventions around the world, published papers etc that put forward their doubts, backed of course by research. However, the scientific 'establishment' rejects these doubters, stating that the Theory of Relativity is absolutely solid.

So if scientific proof doesn't exist, how can science provide all of the answers? Surely those answers are subject to change or doubt? And if that's the case, how can mankind's hope and future be built upon them? I keep thinking of the term 'trial and error'. Scientists conduct experiments or trials, and these often result in error. Or have I missed the point?

Something can be proven beyond any reasonable doubt, but that's not really possible with an abstract concept like memes.

So if the subject is sufficiently abstract, it doesn't need to be proved beyond reasonable doubt before it can/should be believed?

Psychotic Parrot

The theory of relativity is proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Practical experiments have demonstrated classical, special and general relativity. So those who doubt it have a lot to answer for to be honest. One must wonder what exactly is said at these conventions, probably (and i'm only guessing) a lot of nit-picking.

An abstract concept such as memetics isn't so much a hyptothesis that needs to be tested & proven, but rather an analogy. In the case of memetics, it is an analogy that is used to compare the propogation of culture to the propogation of genes. It is a concept which is used in an attempt to quantize culture so that it can be more easily analysed & understood. So really there isn't anything that even needs to be proven, since an analogy only needs to serve an explanatory purpose.

Satanus

Interesting subject.

S

passwordprotected

So really there isn't anything that even needs to be proven, since an analogy only needs to serve an explanatory purpose.

But if it doesn't really need to be proven or is just an analogy, how come the 'science' of memetics has sprung up?

Again I'll ask, can memes be scientifically proven or not? Even if they're analogous, they're analogous of something; can that something be scientifically proven? Remember, if you believe in memes they need to be proven scientifically, analogy of the abstract or not.

passwordprotected

double post

Psychotic Parrot

They are analogous to genes, & genes are scientifically proven. The science of memetics is the study of how culture propogates. It isn't really a science in the same way that quantum mechanics is, but more in the same sense as psychology is. I suppose the answer you are looking for is therefore 'yes'.

passwordprotected

double-post

passwordprotected

So, yes, memes have been scientifically proven? I thought they were an analogy. Can an analogy be proven in a lab?

passwordprotected

I'm sort of surprised; this thread has been viewed over 170 times but no one has been able to provide me with the scientific proof that memes exist. I understand that they are a metaphor to describe an analogy, but that doesn't provide scientific proof that the concept of the analogy for which memes is a metaphor is even true.

What surprises me about this is that I'm very sure that many people believe in memes due to the teachings of Dawkins. But surely before that belief comes the knowledge to back up or prove their existence. If memes are still theoretical and hopefully one day science will back up the metaphor, or they're such an abstract concept that a level of hope in their existence is necessary, surely that falls into the category of faith. And isn't faith delusional?

Psychotic Parrot

You've lost me now. You obviously have a personal problem with Dawkins & are simply trying to find any angle to attack him with.

I don't blame you, he's helped quite a lot of people to see just how stupid religion can be.

But to say that people 'believe' in memes because of 'teachings' of Dawkins shows that you have a fundamental (and quite possibly intentional) mis-understanding of the scientific method. You see it as just another religion no doubt.

A pity.

Have memes been scientifically proven?

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