What really matters to the elders- Podcast 9 Judicial Hearing

by Hobo Ken 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • iknowall558
    iknowall558

    COGNAC This is what I posted on another thread regarding the recording of meetings etc.



    My husband, HOBOKEN, has recorded everything from our shepherding calls to his judicial and appeal. He has already put some of the recordings up on the forum. The elders in our old cong. are aware of this and actually had a meeting to discuss what they were going to do about it. They finally decided to leave it alone as it would only bring him the 'attention' he's craving.

    I think what they were really saying was, that if they make a fuss about it, then it will only bring unwanted attention on THEM and their organization. They don't want involved in any controversy and so will distance themselves from it, even if they are not happy with it.

    The elders from the shepherding calls are fully aware that they are on the internet for everyone to hear. We recorded everything to let people see how they are not really interested in helping you or answering your questions, but to find out from you first and foremost if you believe that God is only using them. They want to know if you've kept your views to yourself, if you've read any books that criticize them and they want to find out if you fit the description of 'apostate'. People should be made aware of how they conduct their business when someone questions 'the faith', or disagrees with certain teachings. I strongly feel it is in the public interest to do so. They humiliate people, control them, and punish them unjustly for thinking for themselves and not agreeing entirely with them on everything they teach, preach and stand for.

    HOBOKENS recording of his JUDICIAL COMMITTEE will be going up sometime this week and I'm sure it will be an eyeopener for anyone listening. His own brother testifies against him in this meeting.

    At the APPEAL COMMITTEE, there are three elders, three circuit overseers, and two witnesses (his brother and local elder who was 'shepherding' us).

    That is EIGHT elders in total. My husband had to try and defend himself, alone, with no witnesses or representatives. He was also asked beforehand about recording equipment to which he denied. He lied, but the fact is, how could someone believe that scenarios like this existed unless you were able to provide proof of it. What kind of JUDICIAL system do they really have. They are extremely secretative and extremely unfair. Hoboken had no chance against this kind of situation. This is why they need to be exposed ! They must be ! The more people who do it the better? What can they do. They don't want Jehovah's name or the image of their organizaton to be associated with anything negative. That's the bottom line.


    Why did he deny being an apostate according to the society's definition of apostate?


    Because the society's definition of an apostate isn't that which the Bible describes. True apostasy is denying God, Christ and the teachings of Christ, none of which Matt had or has done.

    The society's definition of apostasy is only defined through their publications ---- Its denying THEM and THEIR teachings. That defines you as an apostate in THEIR eyes.

    WT 8/1/1980 ".....an apostate....thinks he knows better than his fellow Christians, better also than the Faithful and Discreet Slave, through whom he has learned the best part, if not all that he knows about Jehovah God and his purposes."

    At the outset of the JC the Elder mentioned the 'alleged' charge of apostasy and tried to determine whether Matt was 'spreading' or 'teaching' any views that were contrary to the VIEWS OF JWS. The Elder also defined this is what apostasy is IN THE SOCIETY'S EYES.

    They will go hell for leather to remove anyone who no longer accepts their teachings.........They are viewed as 'dangerous' and 'unclean'.

    WT 3/15/1986..."Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?"....I THINK THAT SAYS IT ALL !

  • scotsman
    scotsman

    Can I ask (without questioning Matt's integrity!) why he didn't want to be disfellowshipped?

  • iknowall558
    iknowall558

    Scotsman --- Because he felt so strongly as do many others that he didn't want them having control over who he could / could not speak to or have association with, especially his family. They mess peoples lives up.

    Our two close friends, passwordprotected and his wife DA'd shortly before us. Ninja stopped going to meetings about a year or so before. We knew how they would all be treated, and witnessed this first hand.

    This is why there is such an outcry with the July AWAKE 2009 about how people should have the freedom to choose their religion and their beliefs without losing their family in the process of doing so. HYPOCRISY screams from them time and again. They have No Right to inflict this kind of pain and separation on anyone, whether inside or outside of their religion. Jesus doesn't want this to happen. It's not natural. This was Matt's thoughts !

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    hehe @ scotsman. Probably for the same reasons you don't.

  • iknowall558
    iknowall558

    cognac -- they ignored the letter. Ninja successfully submitted it to them when being notified of a judicial committee and they backed off. Think it's something to do with the lawyer he had on stand by.

    They told matt that they would go ahead with the meeting regardless of him attending or not. That's when he decided to go and record it.

  • judge rutherFRAUD
    judge rutherFRAUD

    hOBO kEN DOES A GREAT JOB AGAIN he stops them many times and uses jw procedure against them to great effect Ken's makes some mistakes letting them off the hook about what questions he can ask. the def. of apostate "BIBLE TRUTHS THAT THE JW TEACH" used over and over again by the jc committee. would have never got out of the box with me. the whole jc would have BEEN about jw truth. me questioning them on this one statement. all the witness statements againt Ken are all simple bible teachings. eating the bread and wine, worship of Jesus, false teachings 607, 1914. calling Ken's wife a Whore etc. are clearly bible plaCED and show these jw's are DOPES, DISHONEST ETC,KEN AND HIS WIFE HAVE DONE A GREAT SERVICE TO THE XJW COMMUNITY, BY TAKING THE TIME ,HOLDING THIER TEMPERS. AND GIVING THESE TAPES TO THE X JW WORLD. My hat is off to them.

  • scotsman
    scotsman

    hehe @ scotsman. Probably for the same reasons you don't.

    I didn't avoid being disfellowshipped, I avoided meeting a committee that had no relevance to my life, even if it had authority over others. Being disfellowshipped would make no difference to me as I have no family contact anyway.

    It's in light of you being disassociated IKA and the impact that must have had on his JW relatives who presumably shunned you that made me wonder why he'd meet with a committee to maintain contact with people who shun his wife. This is not a criticism.

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers

    Good for you guys! Somewhere down the line I have a feeling that your recording and others like them, will be part of a court case against this cult...Maybe not in the US, but in Europe.

  • MidwichCuckoo
    MidwichCuckoo

    I only managed to listen to first 16 minutes ( sound a tad quiet then PC froze...sheeesh)..

    Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from entering into these judicial hearings with a legal representative or with an impartial by-stander....etc

    Why are they so worried about legal representatives (or some sort of impartial support)? Is it because they're unsure of the legality of these sort of hearings? What's David's day job...lol? It amazes me that people will are so willing to be 'witnesses' to condemn someone in a pretend trial (which it 'sounded' like - did one chap say something about being 'addressed through the chair'...?) - dunno how they could look you in the eye

  • iknowall558
    iknowall558

    Scotsman -- Yes you're probably right on some level, but his mum and dad are both civil to us, have been mostly since the beginning of our 'demise', but , we have two children and I think that's got a lot to do with it. They want to maintain contact with the grandkids. His parents have both spoken to us, sometimes even in a spiritual discussion with Matt, and this has been since we've been DA'd and DF'd. His brother (elder/witness at JC), will not look the road we walk on. And of course we both get shunned by every other active JW who has ever known us. But in the end, it's his mum and dad who he wanted to maintain a relationship with. They have no right to break up families. His dad is 80yrs old now. In reality, his dad might not have seen or spoken to him till the day he died. The shunning policy is a cruel one. To think this is what they dump on people for just 'thinking' or 'believing' something different is just unbelievable. The punishment does not fit the crime.

    I know it probably doesn't make much of an impact on them, but to think we didn't lie down to them, leaves you with some kind of dignity in tact. You have to stand up for what you believe in and try to fight your corner with integrity even though there seems to be an imbalance in power. Matt knew what the outcome would be before the proceedings began. We both did. If the word 'Apostate' has been slapped on your forehead then you will be forced out the door one way or another.

    They set the stage for us to expose them ! We took advantage of that !

    Now they can meet the world and try to explain to them why this is Biblical and loving and why they are not a high control cult.

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