Infinite Justice?

by Satanus 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    A US vs Afghani Scorecard to date. By robert fisk@ . http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=111323

    -------

    Robert Fisk: Brace yourself for Part Two of the War for Civilisation

    'The US air strikes have now killed more Afghans than the hijackers killed westerners and others'

    22 December 2001

    It needed my old Irish journalist colleague, Vincent Browne, to point out the obvious to me. With a headache as big as Afghanistan, reading through a thousand newspaper reports on the supposed "aftermath" of the Afghan war, I'd become drugged by the lies. Afghan women were free at last, "our" peacekeeping force was on its way, the Taliban were crushed. Anti-American demonstrations in Pakistan had collapsed – we'll forget my little brush with some real Afghans there a couple of weeks ago. Al-Qa'ida was being "smoked out" of its cave. Osama bin Laden was – well, not captured or even dead; but – well, the Americans had a videotape, incomprehensible to every Arab I've met, which "proves" that our latest monster planned the crimes against humanity on New York and Washington.

    So it needed Vincent, breathing like a steam engine as he always does when he's angry, to point to the papers in Gemma's, my favourite Dublin newsagents. "What in Christ's sake is going on, Bob?'' he asked. "Have you seen the headlines of all this shite?'' and he pulled Newsweek from the shelf. The headline: After The Evil.
    "What is this biblical bollocks?'' Vincent asked me. Osama bin Laden's overgrained, videotaped face stared from the cover of the magazine, a dark, devilish image from Dante's circles of hell. When he captured Berlin, Stalin announced that his troops had entered "the lair of the fascist beast''. But the Second World War has nothing on this.

    So let's do a "story-so-far". After Arab mass-murderers crashed four hijacked aircraft into the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon and Pennsylvania, a crime against humanity which cost more than 4,000 innocent lives, President Bush announced a crusade for infinite "justice" – later downgraded to infinite freedom – and bombed Afghanistan. Using the gunmen and murderers of the discredited Northern Alliance to destroy the gunmen and murderers of the discredited Taliban, the Americans bombed bin Laden's cave fortresses and killed hundreds of Afghan and Arab fighters, not including the prisoners executed after the Anglo-US-Northern Alliance suppression of the Mazar prison revolt.

    The production of the bin Laden videotape – utterly convincing evidence of his guilt to the world's press, largely, if wilfully, ignored by the Muslim world – helped to obscure the fact that Mr Evil, seemed to have disappeared. It also helped to airbrush a few other facts away. We could forget that US air strikes, according to statistics compiled by a Chicago University professor, have now killed more innocent Afghans than the hijackers killed westerners and others in the World Trade Centre. We could forget that Mullah Omar, the mysterious leader of the Taliban, has also got away.

    We could ignore the fact that, save for a few brave female souls, almost all Afghan women in Kabul continued to wear the burqa. We could certainly close our eyes to the massive preponderance of Northern Alliance killers represented in the new UN-supported, pro-western Government in Kabul. We could clap our hands when a mere 50 Royal Marines arrived in Afghanistan this weekend to support a UN-mandated British-led "peace" force of only a few thousand men who will need the Kabul government's permission to operate in the city and which, in numbers, will come to about one-third of the complement of the British Army destroyed in the Kabul Gorge in 1842.

    The "peace" force thinks it will have to defend humanitarian aid convoys from robbers and dissident Taliban. In fact, it will have to fight off the Northern Alliance mafia and drug-growers and warlords, as well as the vicious guerrillas sent out to strike them by bin Laden's survivors. If nothing else, the Taliban made the roads and villages of Afghanistan safe for Afghans and foreigners alike. Now, you can scarcely drive from Kabul to Jalalabad.

    Presumably, the CIA will let us pay the Alliance mobsters for their war in Afghanistan. One of the untold stories of this conflict is the huge amount of money handed out to militia leaders to persuade them to fight for the US. When Taliban members changed sides for an Alliance payment of $250,000 and then attacked their benefactors, we all dwelt on their treachery. None of us asked how the Alliance – which didn't have enough money to pay for bullets a few weeks earlier – could throw a quarter of a million bucks at the Taliban in the middle of a fire site. Nor how the Pashtun tribal leaders of Kandahar province are now riding around in brand-new four-wheel drives with thousands of dollars to hand out to their gunmen. I wasn't surprised to read that a Somali warlord is now offering his cash-for-hire services to the US for the next round of the War on Civilisation.

    Fortunately for us, the civilian victims of America's B52s will remain unknown in their newly dug graves. Even before the war ended, around 3,700 of them – not counting Mullah Omar's and bin Laden's gunmen – had been ripped to pieces in our War for Civilisation. A few scattered signs of discontent – the crowd that assaulted me two weeks ago, for example, outraged at the killing of their families – can be quickly erased from the record.

    It is obviously perverse to note that I haven't met a single ordinary Muslim or, indeed many westerners – Pakistani, Afghan, Arab, British, French, American – who actually believe all this guff. Let's just remember that the new Kabul government is as committed to support "Islam, democracy, pluralism (sic) and social justice'' as Mr Bush is to Good (sic) and the Destruction of Evil. Roll on next year, and don't worry about bin Laden – he may be back just in time to participate in Part Two of the War for Civilisation.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Saint: What is your point in posting this stuff? It is typical conspiracy theory junk. - Amazing

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    What conspiracy? That the videotape may have been faked? Other than that this article is a summing up of what has happened so far, not a conspiratorial rant. I think it's helpful to get the other side of the story, even if it comes from an idealogue, for we certainly aren't getting both sides of the story from the U.S. media.

    I don't know how many of the facts in this article are accurate, but I do know that things are not as simple as Bush likes to paint them. People in the U.S. seem to be relaxing now that bin Laden is on the run, forgetting that terrorism does not live or die solely with him. This is a much more complex problem that we are being led to believe. Like the War on Drugs, this War on Evil will never end, in my opinion. That's why I was so upset to see our rights being curtailed in these "temporary" "war-time" measures. I know we will never get those rights back, and I know that things are not as simple as the U.S. media makes it out to be.

    So I welcome opposing viewpoints being posted here, even less-than-100% accuracte viewpoints, for the U.S. media certainly posts less-than-100% accurate pieces. By comparing all sides we can begin to perceive the reality of the situation.

  • Julie
    Julie

    Hi Seeker,

    These "opposing viewpoints" would be much more warmly received if Clinton were in office, or any other Dem. See this board, much like the place I live in, is a right-wing-republican stronghold. Any light revealing "shite" on that "side" will be either dismissed or eyed suspiciously.

    Julie, who is starting to wonder if we could shed more light on matters if the left had some high-powered hate-mongers like the right

  • teejay
    teejay

    Thanks, Saint.

    I admit... I've become a little disillusioned about the "War on Terrorism" over the past week or so and haven't been following it as much as before. Good article.

    Now we're even in the number of innocent dead, eh? Any guess how the average American will respond to such news?

    The smoking gun (aka "the tape") has disappeared from the news, as well it should, as inaudible and gurgled as it was, the American captioning at the bottom be damned. Whoever came up with thinking that scam would fly needs to be demoted.

    U.S. operatives admit they have no clue as to where bin Laden is? I wonder if he was EVER in Afghanistan post Sept. 11. Wouldn't surprise me to one day learn that he filmed all those communiqués from Yemen, Saudi Arabia or someplace else.

    Amazing that some would call the cold, hard facts "conspiratorial." Got me shakin' my head over here.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Amazing

    I thought it was interesting that the number of civilians that the us bombing has killed is about equal to the number of civilians killed in the wtc crashes.

    SS

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    I do believe that the number of civilian deaths in Afganistan has probably surpassed the number of deaths on Sept. 11 but I also believe that it's a necessary evil. It's obvious that these zealots don't value their own lives. Maybe they'll value the lives of their countrymen and families.

    Fact: The US was Attacked and Innocent civilians were killed.
    Fact: The Attack was perpetrated by Islamic radicals who do not fear death.
    Fact: This must not happen again

    I believe this fight is not about justice. Perfect justice would include restoring the lives that were lost on Sept. 11. No, this fight is about prevention. We cannot allow the terrorists watching to think that there will be no repercussions. We cannot eliminate all terrorist because there are many who haven't even made the decision yet. We can though, make them know that it will not benifit them at all. We can let them know through the death of family and fellow Islamic radicals, and yes innocent civilians, that they will suffer if they choose that course of action. The only solution for terrorism is to make it hurt. Make it hurt very very bad. We have only begun this fight.

    TimB

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    I do believe that the number of civilian deaths in Afganistan has probably surpassed the number of deaths on Sept. 11 but I also believe that it's a necessary evil. It's obvious that these zealots don't value their own lives.

    The civilians are the zealots? I thought the Taliban and al Qaeda were the zealots.

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    Seeker,

    Are you trying to start an arguement? I didn't say that the civilians were the zealots, now did I? Why did you take a couple of sentences out of my post to make it seem that way? I made my point clear a couple of times that these zealots might care if civilians were going to die for thier actions.

    TimB

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    tyydyy,

    My mistake. I misread your post, and I apologize for that. I was genuinely curious about your meaning, which is why I asked my question to you. I was not trying to start an argument.

    As it happens, I agree with your post, and was only curious about your opening. But, as I said, I misread it, and I regret that.

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