For all the claims to being imperfect, why cant JWs simply say "We have been wrong about ...." (fill in the blank).
That would take humility by the Governing Body.
JW Defenders- Is WTS Right to Insist You Stay Away From these Websites?
by OnTheWayOut 307 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Spike Tassel
OnTheWayOut (Post 8587): Is WTS right to insist that "true Christians" stay away from websites that debate the Bible and WT doctrine?
Spike Tassel (Post 895):— What proof do you have? I'm interested in boning up on my Scriptural reasoning. How else can I do that, when I am not in association with the congegation (other than by singing with it and listening to its program)?
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
10 Web Sites of "Jehovah’s Witnesses": Consider, for example, some Internet sites set up by individuals who claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses. They invite you to visit their sites to read experiences posted by others who claim to be Witnesses. You are encouraged to share your thoughts and views about the Society’s literature. Some give recommendations about presentations that could be used in the field ministry. These sites offer chat rooms for individuals to connect to, allowing live communication with others, similar to talking on the telephone. They often point you to other sites where you can have on-line association with Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world. But can you tell for certain that these contacts have not been planted by apostates?
Spike Tassel (Post 907):— JWN is not this type of site. It reminds me of the serious objections one receives in Field Service, which actually require me to look up the scriptures in the Index, and add to it from my Concordance; and to consult various of my other Bible translations, which helps me understand the Scriptures better, what I can defend and what I must wait for assistance regarding
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
11 Having association via the Internet may not be consistent with the recommendation found at Ephesians 5:15-17. The apostle Paul wrote: "Keep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as wise persons, buying out the opportune time for yourselves, because the days are wicked. On this account cease becoming unreasonable, but go on perceiving what the will of Jehovah is."
Spike Tassel (Post 907):— Personally, my experience on JWN this last month has helped me look into my actual NWT Reference Bible much more. I feel that I am learning how to "cease becoming unreasonable" and get to"perceiving what the will of Jehovah is." My TV viewing time is way down and my time spent on "family history" is almost nil, due to the full-time energy I expend, here on JWN.
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
12 The Christian congregation is the theocratic means through which we are fed spiritually by "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matt. 24:45-47) Within God’s organization, we find direction and protection to keep us separate from the world as well as motivation to keep busy in the work of the Lord. (1 Cor. 15:58) The psalmist indicated that he experienced joy and a feeling of security among God’s congregated people. (Ps. 27:4, 5; 55:14; 122:1) The congregation also provides spiritual support and assistance for those associated with it. Therein, you can find a group of loving, concerned, and caring friends—people you personally know who are ready and willing to help and comfort others in times of distress. (2 Cor. 7:5-7) Congregation members are protected by the Scriptural provision for disfellowshipping those who sin unrepentantly or who promote apostate thinking. (1 Cor. 5:9-13; Titus 3:10, 11) Can we expect to find these same loving arrangements when associating with others via the Internet?
Spike Tassel (Post 907):— [Spike Tassel] is NOT one of Jehovah's Witnesses. So, I'm not "within" God's organization, nor am I allowed to be "associated" with it at this time. I'm not expecting "loving arrangements" nor do I "associate" with what is against my conscience, I oppose it, as peaceably as I can.
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
13 It has become apparent that the opposite is true. Some Web sites are clearly vehicles for apostate propaganda. Such Web sites may claim otherwise, and those who sponsor a site may give a detailed explanation to affirm that they truly are Jehovah’s Witnesses. They may even request information from you in order to verify that you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Spike Tassel (Post 907) JWN clearly is a vehicle for apostate propaganda. At the least, the propaganda can be addressed, and those who are more neutral can agree with pro-Bible, pro-JW Posts.
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
14 Jehovah wants you to exercise discernment. Why? Because he knows that it will safeguard you from various dangers. Proverbs 2:10-19 opens by saying: "When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you." Safeguard you from what? From such things as "the bad way," those leaving upright paths, and people who are immoral and devious in their general course.
Spike Tassel (Post 907):— Ironically, I exercise much better discernment than I did previously, and was more inclined to bad ways, leaving upright paths, and found it hard not to have immoral, devious tendencies before. Now that is not just TV and Internet, but interactive, I can make a visible stand, which I couldn't do with passive viewing.
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
15 When we go to the Kingdom Hall, there is no question that we are with our brothers. We know them. No one requires authentication of this because the brotherly love manifested makes it obvious. We are not personally required to provide credentials to prove that we truly are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is here that we find the true interchange of encouragement that Paul spoke about at Hebrews 10:24, 25. Web sites that encourage on-line association cannot be depended on to provide this. Having in mind the words of Psalm 26:4, 5 can alert us to dangers that could easily be encountered when using Web sites on the Internet.
Spike Tassel (Post 907):— "no question" is not true from my experience. "We know them" might be true, but that still doesn't guarantee trust. "Brotherly love" and "true interchange of encouragement" are very consistently demonstrated in some individuals, less so with others. "On-line association" is true to some extent, in that I feel we're all outcasts to some extent; in others, it very much depends on how the posters attitude is.
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
16 There are no limits or checks on the kind of information that is maintained by and accessible to Internet users. Often, children and teenagers are easy targets of crime and exploitation in this environment. Children are trusting, curious, and anxious to explore the relatively new world of cyberspace. Parents therefore need to supervise their children and give them sound Scriptural guidance about using the Internet, just as they would guide them in their choice of music or movies.—1 Cor. 15:33.
Spike Tassel (Post 907):— I am a discerning adult with no impressionable ones around when I'm on JWN.
AllTimeJeff (Post 1948) For Spike post #895
*** km 11/99 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers! ***
17 Sadly, some who were once our brothers and sisters have had to be disfellowshipped because of association that started by meeting worldly individuals in chat rooms on the Internet and eventually led to immorality. In shocked disbelief, elders have written that some had actually left their husbands or wives to pursue a relationship that began on the Internet. (2 Tim. 3:6) Other individuals have disowned the truth because of believing information provided by apostates. (1 Tim. 4:1, 2) Given these very serious dangers, does it not seem reasonable to be cautious about becoming involved in chat sessions on the Internet? Certainly, exercising the wisdom, knowledge, thinking ability, and discernment spoken of at Proverbs 2:10-19 should safeguard us in this.
Spike Tassel (Post 907):—Immorality is something I definitely oppose. And I'm not interested in disowning the truth or believing information provided by apostates. I resist this spirit of treachery and all the moreso as I increase in my practical use of the Bible. In addition to Proverbs 2:10-19, I also like Proverbs 26:4-5, and find this ministry particularly enjoyable as share in it with those such as Reniaa (a regular-pioneer-type here on JWN).
-
Spike Tassel
Sorry for my last Post showing internally as Post 907. It should read Post 908 throughout. My mistake.
-
zombie dub
spike, unless you are playing dumb - you know as well as every other witness/ex-witness on there the WT publicly prints words like "maybe", "perhaps", "exercise discernment", but talks, counsel and judicial committees are vastly different.
For example, the WT advises unmarried couples spending long periods of time together alone is unadvisable, although it does not forbid it. How many people have been in trouble, strongly counseled or DF'ed for this though (just spending time, breaking no other rules)? Many many, I know of a lot myself.
-
Hoping4Change
I'm not interested in disowning the truth or believing information provided by apostates.
Spike - but what about information that is truth that just happens to come from those called 'apostates'? Certainly you aren't suggesting that the mere label of 'apostate' means that they can't possibly have truthful information? Doesn't truth stand on its' own regardless of its' source? And shouldn't every posited piece of information offered as 'truth' be investigated by everyone to determine its' truthfulness? And once the truthfullness has been determined, isn't it proper to acknowldge such truth, no matter where it came from?
-
awildflower
For active jw's who are here, whether they know it or not yet, something in their sub-conscious is opening a door for them to be free of mind control. This is a good thing! It is part of their journey out. IMO if they stay here, they absolutely will come out from under the wts eventually and that's what their minds and bodies want to do. It's all part of a journey. There is no other reason people like them would be on boards like this. NONE. When I was an active JW, and a very good one at that, I would never have even dreamed of coming onto something like this UNTIL I DID! Why? Because something was giving way in my mind and this is one of the places it led me. We are not designed to be under mind-control. It is a process that every human will take no matter what mind controled org or group or anything, they might be part of. Just like one day those of us who are active on here, will fade away. We are on a journey back to our Source which is Love. We are all on a journey. I welcome those active jw's here for this very reason. It will be better for them in the long run...........wf
-
caliber
Reniaa answer is not yes . it is yes but .........!
-
awildflower
and P.S. Is it right for the org to warn people to stay away from these sites? Yes! They are well aware that it will start a process of leaving and of course they don't want that. The truth will stand on it's own, the wts can't........
-
Mickey mouse
For a Watchtower supporter to say it's OK to be here is completely untenable.
Remember that JWs are very well adept at holding two conflicting opinions at the same time.
Hence you can have people talking out of both sides of their mouths and contradicting themselves in the same sentence without seeing the problem with it.
-
OnTheWayOut
Reniaa said: You want to draw 'genuine' defenders to reply but admit that if they pesist in posting replies they are betraying 'trevor'-like tendencies? Basically "reply to me but don't keep replying or i'll see you as a troll" this is not a fair platform.
To be fair, any genuine defenders would not be called Trevor-like. But also to be fair, the original post did not exclude you and you did reply and you would feel baited into it. So is that fair? No. I agree. But neither is your endless baiting of others. Neither is your clear lying. You are the epitimy of Trevor-like. I address you here because you made a valid point. Otherwise, I choose to ignore such a lying attention seeker that doesn't really support the WTS doctrines. You are either actually Trevor or you are some similar disturbed individual who laughs at how you can waste all your time causing others to waste all their time. I say "good day" to you. "Good day" means I go back to ignoring you.
zombie dub said: spike, unless you are playing dumb - you know as well as every other witness/ex-witness on there the WT publicly prints words like "maybe", "perhaps", "exercise discernment", but talks, counsel and judicial committees are vastly different.
Excellent job. That's the kind of thing I was thinking. Even Reniaa didn't deny such a rule. I love how Spike is "not a JW" but defends everything JW, then knows nothing about their beliefs and practices. Just another style of playing attention seeker and not being genuine.
I do hope that at least some of the lurkers who defend WTS have read this. While I (unfairly) baited a couple of phony JW defenders, some really know they are breaking the rules and really still believe in the rules or are unsure. Maybe reading this has helped. Reniaa compares posting here to fornication. (Call that baiting again if you like.) WTS calls any violation of their rules just as bad as any clear violation of "Christian Law" or "Christian Morality." Smoking a cigarette is just as bad as adultery which is just as bad as murder which is just as bad as receiving a blood transfusion or denial of the WT organization being spirit-directed.