Birthday Celebrations & other shenanigans

by homeschool 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  homeschool

  Well, here's my latest "thing"...I plan on speaking with my siblings & their mates in the near future. I have told them that I have questions regarding some doctrines, mainly stuff like birthdays, mother's day, father's day, etc. My hubby has some questions for them regarding their wacky blood doctrine (but I wont cover that in this thread).

  I plan on asking about their views first. Why don't they celebrate birthdays? Then, here is my whole slew of points I want to bring out. Please add to it, or tell me of the things I should leave out. Either way, I feel like I should probably rehearse it so I don't get nervous or act pompous.

  Of course they will bring up that the Bible mentions 2 birthday celebrations, in which people were killed at each. (Gen 40:20-21 & Mark 6:21-29 & Mathew 14:1-11)

  However,is it POSSIBLE that birthdays were so common that the bible writers didn't feel the need to write about them? Regarding the Pharoah's birthday (Gen. 40:20-21), is it POSSIBLE that the account doesn't even have to do with his birthday, but rather the fact that YHWH was with Joseph and helped him interpret dreams? Since YHWH with with Joseph in this account, wouldn't he also forbid birthdays? It would help to read the ENTIRE chapter to see that the baker was a sinner....wasn't it the popular thing to do to kill sinners in that day? So wasn't it actually a scripture about GOOD things?

  *Isn't bringing a newborn a gift a BIRTHDAY PRESENT???

  *Let's look at Genesis 21:8. What's this about?! Abraham threw a party for Isaac on the day he was weaned. Next, look at 1 Samuel 1:22, there is a reference to Hannah weaning her son. (I have not discovered this on my own...check out my thread on studying "What Does the Bible Teach") Next to the word "weaned", notice the letter "q"...if you go to the middle section of the page, it refers you to 2 Chron 31:16. where it speaks of a child being 3 years old at the time of weaning. Hmmmmmm, interesting.

  I googled this subject....Jews believe the boy was actually having his 13th birthday, while many other christians feel it was a 3rd birthday party. Whether Abraham was celebrating the boy's birthday or not, wasn't he celebrating something Isaac really didn't have control of?

  If they bring up how they don't like to acknowlege things of pagan origin, that is hypocrisy at its best. Where shall I begin?

  *Pinatas (check out their reasoning in the Awake 2003 9/22 pgs. 22-23)

  *Anniversary parties (there is no place in the Bible that instructs people to celebrate their wedding anniversary)

  *Wedding Rings

  *Wedding Veil (used to be used to protect the bride from evil spirits)

  *Wedding Party (used as a distraction for the evil spirits)

  *Carrying the Bride over the threshhold

  *Saving the top layer of the wedding cake for a year

  *Make-up (a reference in 2 Kings 9:30 is made to Jezebel applying make-up shortly before she is thrown from the window....YHWH doesn't prohibit make-up, but according to their birthday reasoning, shouldn't make-up be banned as well?)

  *Baby Showers

  *Flying Kites

  *Pot lucks

  *Tombstones

  *laying flowers on someone's grave...refer to Watchtower 1991 Oct 15th, pgs. 30&31

  If something was pagan thousands of years ago, should it be considered pagan today? Refer to Awake 1976 12/22 pg. 14

  Birthdays mark each year of achievement. Is that wrong? It is celebrating a life that YHWH provided. And as a sidenote, I do not ever remember someone having their head chopped off or even murdered at any of the birthdays I've been to. You may have a different experience, please let me know if you've heard otherwise

  Also, if they say the only two birthdays mentioned in the bible reflected negatively on them...can we check out all the horror stories mentioned regarding drinking? Yes, there were times when Christians were told to drink & have a grand ol' time, but what about that bad stuff that happened? Wouldn't Jehooba's people decide it's best to leave alcohol alone until the new system, where the temptations will be gone?

  *Genesis 9:20-25 caused a whole group of people to be cursed as a result of alcohol

  *Genesis 19:30-38 Lot ended up having sex & babies with his two daughters as a result of drinking wine

  *2 Samuel 13:26-29 Absalom got his brother drunk and had him killed.

  Most "worldly people drink"....shouldn't the jw's try to be "no part of the world"?

  Alcohol is the cause of 60% of car accidents

  Alcohol causes approiximately 50% of homes to be dysfunctional, including jw homes (whether they admit it or not)

  It is the leading cause of spouse/child abuse.

  Drink on!

  Ok, please let me know what you think. I really think I should practice the important points before they come over. Whaddya think?
• 

  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Those are some good points. I know for a fact that lots of active, faithful Witnesses do not think celebrating birthdays is a big deal. Nonetheless, they don't celebrate birthdays because they're instructed not to. It's similar to the old "alternative service" prohibition. Nobody really understood why it was sinful to work in a civilian hospital in order to get out of going to war--but they did what they were told.

  Here are my favorite points about why there's nothing wrong with celebrating a birthday:

  1. God does not forbid it in the Bible--even in the Old Testament. Obviously, celebrating birthdays was known back then (you cited the account of Pharoah's birthday in Genesis). So, why didn't God forbid it in the Law? He forbade all sorts of nit-picky, specific acts such as 'boiling a kid in its mother's milk.' It stands to reason that if he didn't want his people to celebrate birthdays, he would have told them not to.
  2. There is a recorded example of God's faithful angels celebrating a birthday--the birth of Christ. In Luke, the angels are in the fields rejoicing on the night Christ was born. They were celebrating his birth on the day he was born. If that isn't celebrating a birthday...what is?
  3. Some JWs argue that there's no evidence of God's servants in Bible times celebrating birthdays and that some birthday observances have 'pagan' origins. Even if that is so, does that necessarily mean that we are forbidden to do so? That doesn't make sense. For example, there is no recorded scriptural passage showing that God's servants (Israelite or Christian) went to the theater and saw a play. In fact, the Roman theater of the First Century was a haven of debauchery, showing bawdy and violent performances, including ones in which Christians were killed. If anything has a false-religious background, it would be the theater. So, fast-forward to today. Modern JWs have no problem attending theatrical performances and movies as long as they are not too racy. Why not apply the same standard to birthday celebrations?

  Finally, did you know that JWs are allowed to have one celebration of a birth in their lifetime? They call it a baby shower. Think about what a baby shower is--it's a party that celebrates the birth of a child in which the child is given presents. Now a baby shower is not held on the day the child is born (usually a few weeks/months before), but I submit that it doesn't matter. It's still a birthday party called by another name.
• 

  Farkel

  :Of course they will bring up that the Bible mentions 2 birthday celebrations, in which people were killed at each. (Gen 40:20-21 & Mark 6:21-29 & Mathew 14:1-11)

  Had Jesus not had the "Lord's Evening Meal", Judas would have never left, betrayed Jesus and died a horrible death. Ergo, celebrating the Lord's Evening Meal is unscriptural.

  Same logic, different circumstance. Besides that, ancient Jews celebrated like crazy after they slaughtered thousands of their enemies.

  But just to be sure, don't attend Birthday parties, because beheadings happen so commonly at them.

  What a crock of Shiite.

  Farkel
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  bluecanary

  Isn't there something in the Bible about Job observing his children's "days"? Someone else will have to tell you where that is.

  Thanks for organizing this info. It's great. Bookmarked.
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  jamiebowers

  I heard on the History channel once that lipstick originates with prosttiutes rubbing berries on their lips to signal their willingness to perform oral sex to potential customers. Wasn't it Moses who got drunk and was defiled by one of his grandsons? History and Bible scholars, help me out here.
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  Atlantis

  Photo Drama of Creation pp.26-28 Job's Adversity and Restitution

  
  Click to enlarge.

  The story of Job, Prophet of Uz, a contemporary of Abraham and Melchisedec, is full of interest to Bible students. Not only the facts, but their typical significance, interests us, when we learn that Job's experiences represented the fall and rising again of humanity.

  Job was wealthy, honored and prosperous. Suddenly disaster came upon him. A bolt of lightning struck the house where his sons and daughters were having a birthday party. They were all killed. Then he lost his sheep, asses, goats, camels and herds. Under the stress, he lost his health and broke out with boils from head to foot. Next he lost his friends, who declared that all this meant his utter repudiation by God. Finally, his wife turned against him and said, "You are cursed of God; I wish you would die!" Poor Job wished the same and prayed, "O that Thou wouldst hide me in Sheol [the tomb] until Thy wrath be past; that Thou wouldst appoint me a set time and [in resurrection] remember me." (Job 14:13.) Messiah will fulfil this prophecy.

  http://www.biblestudents.org/absco/photodrama/pd0003.htm#Job's Adversity and Restitution

  Check your "Proclaimers Book" for R. H. Barber who was Rutherford's lead investigator for almost all the "celebrations," and then check what Barber believed in himself. The very person who was finding fault with Christmas and Birthday celebrations was neck-deep in spiritism himself. Barber believed that Russell and others who were dead were still leading the preaching work from the grave!

  If you need the documentation I will be happy to get it for you. Every time a JW states that there were only two birthdays in the Bible, they are shooting holes in their own doctrine.

  N.
• 

  bluecanary

  I heard on the History channel once that lipstick originates with prosttiutes rubbing berries on their lips to signal their willingness to perform oral sex to potential customers.

  Yes, and eyeshadow and blush are supposed to simulate the way the body naturally flushes during orgasm.

  Make-up, nylons and shaving various body parts all came into fashion from prostitutes.
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  isaacaustin

  Gen 40:20...read all of ch 40, ch 41...the point is not b-days...it is Joseph's ability to foretell dreams.

  John the Baptist wa sbeheaded on his b-day. Are you siblings aware only one haircut was mentioend in the Bible- bringing disaastrous results to Samson?
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  truthseeker

  There is no question that Pharaoh had one execution at his birthday, but who gave the baker and cupbearer the dreams?

  Why would Joseph interpret dreams of those who didn't serve God?

  As Joseph said, "interpretation belongs to God", so this is evidence that Jehovah did involve himself with the birthdays of humans, if even in a limited way.

  Genesis 40

  1 And it came to pass after these things, that the butler of the king of Egypt and his baker had offended their lord the king of Egypt.

  2 And Pharaoh was wroth against two of his officers, against the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers.

  3 And he put them in ward in the house of the captain of the guard, into the prison, the place where Joseph was bound.

  4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season in ward.

  5 And they dreamed a dream both of them, each man his dream in one night, each man according to the interpretation of his dream, the butler and the baker of the king of Egypt, which were bound in the prison.

  6 And Joseph came in unto them in the morning, and looked upon them, and, behold, they were sad.

  7 And he asked Pharaoh's officers that were with him in the ward of his lord's house, saying, Wherefore look ye so sadly to day?

  8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.

  9 And the chief butler told his dream to Joseph, and said to him, In my dream, behold, a vine was before me;

  10 And in the vine were three branches: and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes:

  11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.

  12 And Joseph said unto him, This is the interpretation of it: The three branches are three days:

  13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler.

  14 But think on me when it shall be well with thee, and shew kindness, I pray thee, unto me, and make mention of me unto Pharaoh, and bring me out of this house:

  15 For indeed I was stolen away out of the land of the Hebrews: and here also have I done nothing that they should put me into the dungeon.

  16 When the chief baker saw that the interpretation was good, he said unto Joseph, I also was in my dream, and, behold, I had three white baskets on my head:

  17 And in the uppermost basket there was of all manner of bakemeats for Pharaoh; and the birds did eat them out of the basket upon my head.

  18 And Joseph answered and said, This is the interpretation thereof: The three baskets are three days:

  19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.

  20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants.

  21 And he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand:

  22 But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them.

  23 Yet did not the chief butler remember Joseph, but forgat him.
• 

  truthseeker

  A birthday is a useful measure of time, being one year exactly since the date of birth.

  There is no good reason not to celebrate life, it can even be used to praise God, the giver of life. I have not seen one birthday, whether at work or elsewhere that supposedly glorieis and honors a human being above God or even near to that. Most birthdays are non-religious.