I tried having a run-through/practice conversation with my husband last night. He played Devil's Advocate. WheW! I need to keep practicing. For every good point I made, he made a comeback point that was kinda dumb (the way the witnesses would respond) & then I had nothing to say back without starting an argument.
Birthday Celebrations & other shenanigans
by homeschool 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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rebel8
Job also celebrated a birthday. I don't have a citation but remember reading it.
Remember the scripture, 'don't go beyond things written'.
IMO if you're going to bring it up: "You know I totally support the Society, 100%. And they've said they are imperfect, and also that Jehovah knows things we don't. So I was reading up on birthdays and did you know the following people celebrated birthdays in the Bible and this was mentioned in a good light?....Also we are permitted to do the following things which have Pagan roots?....It's interesting to wonder what Jehovah has in store for us. I wonder what new light he is going to provide to clarify why we don't celebrate birthdays."
Then you are not an apostate, but you are sharing the info you want them to know. Then they make their own decision.
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homeschool
Yeah, thanks Rebel, very good points. My husband also said "you have to respond to their questions with a question. If you answer negatively, the conversation is over"....also a good point.
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SixofNine
I tried having a run-through/practice conversation with my husband last night. He played Devil's Advocate. WheW! I need to keep practicing. For every good point I made, he made a comeback point that was kinda dumb (the way the witnesses would respond) & then I had nothing to say back without starting an argument.
And that's probably about as good as it gets on birthdays.
I think the best thing you can do wrt birthdays, is make some points, have a small, not to heated argument, maybe get them thinking, and then agree to disagree. After all, they don't have a coherent, logical argument. In the end, it boils down to, "it's just a matter of trusting the faithful slave", augmented by "and besides, it's such a small sacrifice".
I don't know if this would resonate with your sister or not; it's the conclusion I had come to in my last year or so as a witness:
I came to realize that witnesses didn't have a real biblical basis for their birthday ban (heck, even as a little kid you think "ok, yeah, but the bible story wasn't really about birthdays....), and I think I may have even found the references to Job's children having "their own day". I'd even found things in the Awake or Wt that made it seem as if the organization was backing off from the no-birthday rule, (though obviously they haven't done so in practice).
But what got my passions up, in opposition to the society, was that I realized that if A) birthdays aren't really a biblical matter at all, and B) we as Jehovah's Witnesses were going door to door offering people the only chance at real salvation....
then wtf was it ok for us to withold that salvation over something as non-biblical and trivial as birthdays??? The onus IS NOT on "worldly" people to see birthdays as "no big deal, just follow the 'faithful slave'", since the "faithful slave" doesn't have a logical coherent argument.
I looked around and thought "are we interested in saving lives, or not?" That's what it comes down to. JW's make a big deal about "stumbling". Well why don't they practice what they preach and stop "stumbling" worldly people away from Jehovah with their silly, non-biblical, contradicted by their own writings, birthday psuedo-doctrine?
I didn't leave the Witnesses over birthdays, but well before the time I did leave, I realized that they were morally wrong on the issue. Come to think of it, why didn't I leave over that? Or over beards? Small things, but if you can't get the small things right (especially after decades!), can you be trusted with the big things?
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bluecanary
then wtf was it ok for us to withold that salvation over something as non-biblical and trivial as birthdays??? The onus IS NOT on "worldly" people to see birthdays as "no big deal, just follow the 'faithful slave'", since the "faithful slave" doesn't have a logical coherent argument.
I looked around and thought "are we interested in saving lives, or not?" That's what it comes down to. JW's make a big deal about "stumbling". Well why don't they practice what they preach and stop "stumbling" worldly people away from Jehovah with their silly, non-biblical, contradicted by their own writings, birthday psuedo-doctrine?
Wow. There are a lot of good arguments for birthdays on this thread, but this is the Best. One. Ever.
When people used to ask me why we didn't celebrate birthdays, I had to explain, "If you look at any one reason, it's not really compelling, but when you add up all the many little reasons it just seems like its best not to do it."
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homeschool
After all, they don't have a coherent, logical argument. Very true, very true. You are right. My husband's gonna kick my butt for agreeing with you because that's what he said last night & I disagreed . Sorry Hubby! You were right too! I still think 'where there's a will there's a way', but maybe this go-round, I'll just stick with little hints as opposed to a big discussion.
With regards to baby showers, what if the jw says "oh, its not celebrating the new baby's day of birth...its just giving gifts to the family to help out with the new baby" ? Riiiiight
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truthseeker
Does anyone actually need a commandment to be told to celebrate a birthday - doesn't that sort of things happen by itself?
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isaacaustin
Where does the Bible command us to celebrate wedding anniversaries, own pets, go out to dinner, buy a tv, listen to the radio...the list goes on and on and on
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Smoky
Do the Jews of today celebrate birhtdays? If so, is it something they follow in the old testament, or is it in there orginizational doctrine?
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lilyflor
would this work? I like the last two sentences....
The
Concernof Christians Awake 2000 Jan8
When a Christian must decide whether or not to follow a certain custom, his main concern should be, What is God’s viewpoint as expressed in the Bible? In the past God condemned certain practices that may have been tolerated in some communities. These included child sacrifice, the misuse of blood, and various sexual practices. (Leviticus 17:13, 14; 18:1-30; Deuteronomy 18:10) Likewise, certain customs that are common today are clearly not in harmony with Bible principles. Among these are non-Biblical traditions connected with religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter or with superstitious practices related to spiritism.
But what about customs that may once have been linked to questionable practices but that today are primarily viewed as social etiquette? For example, many popular wedding customs—including the exchanging of rings and the eating of cake—may have pagan origins. Does this mean that Christians are forbidden to observe such customs? Are Christians required to scrutinize meticulously each custom of the community to see whether somewhere or at some time it had negative connotations?
Paul points out that “where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.” (2 Corinthians 3:17; James 1:25) God wants us to use this freedom, not as an inducement for selfish cravings, but to train our perceptive powers to distinguish right from wrong. (Galatians 5:13; Hebrews 5:14; 1 Peter 2:16) Hence, in a matter where there is no clear violation of Bible principles, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not create a hard-and-fast rule. Instead, each Christian must weigh the circumstances at hand and make a personal decision.
