Is the NWT the best...

by Narkissos 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Narkissos

  I don't want to misrepresent what Gilead showed me about the NWT. The impression I got personally was this, that the GB (via the Gilead instructors) spent too much time promoting/defending the NWT. I didn't think our class needed it, we were already indoctrinated. (right?) So why do this more?

  It was hard to promote the superiority of the NWT when not having comparative bibles to read... It was odd.

  We got to see the "J" references (including one published in 1986, after the 84 reference bible and KIT came out)

  I don't think that the GB promotes the NWT so much as certain verses within it that are so obviously different. Otherwise, whether you talk of greasing or annointing a head, or refer to the ruach/pneuma as "holy spirit" or "breath", its just the liscence that any translator can take.

  Stephen, I understand that the NWT has certain passages that obscure Jesus, but I agree with Narkissos that a simple reading of the NWT in context can, by itself, draw anyone paying attention to a different conclusion from what the GB would have you believe.
• 

  drew sagan

  Reminds me of my discussion with a JW about Matthew 27: 52, 53. This has to be one of the most embarassing texts for any brand of Christian. I was still studying at the time (only about 16 years old). The JWs kepts telling me that the text was describing bodies that had fallen out of tombs. Yet here is how the NWT states it:

  52 And the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, 53 (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.
  
  Needless to say I didn't buy the argument. My JW friends seemed frustrated that I didn't go along with the explanation (something I didn't quite understand at the time). Eventually we moved on to another topic and I forgot about that strange little text untill years later during my exit .
• 

  possible-san

  Narkissos.
  
  

  Well, since off topic it goes...

  For you, you may feel so.
  But for me, I think that what I described has not strayed from the topic.
  That is, "Is the NWT the best ..."

  There is no person who has the same brain as you.
  All people have a brain different from you.

  Not quite so: it doesn't explain why it is translated "active force" here rather than "spirit" or "wind" as everywhere else (actually that would be a tough thing to explain).

  Usually, only the person who translated it knows why those words were chosen.
  
  In the NWT, "Albert D.Schroeder" and "Karl Klein" (probably) took charge of those footnotes.
  And that main translator is "Frederick W.Franz."(probably)
  Even if you do not agree, the translation committee of the NWT is trying hard to show why those words were chosen.

  That the NWT has those "footnotes" is not a point which you should blame.

  Chalam,

  I asked you.
  "Why does the NIV add "the" which is not in the Greek text? ("In the beginning...")"

  possible
  http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/
• 

  Narkissos

  possible-san,

  Usually, when you see suspension points (the three little dots) at the end of a title, and an interrogative form (verb-subject sequence) without a question mark, you know you have to read the opening post to see what the topic is really about. That was a little tricky maybe, but later I made it much clearer I think. My question was not about the value of the NWT as a bible (i.e., as compared to other bibles) but as a WT publication: iow, how does the fact JWs have their own bible can affect them; potentially reinforcing their indoctrination on one side, opening them to the Bible texts which are nothing like the rest of WT literature (even in the NWT) and raising questions about their teachings (in the rest of WT literature) on the other side.

  And from this perspective, I welcome the existence of NWT footnotes, regardless of their contents.
• 

  insearchoftruth

  The NWT makes it a lot easier for a JW to communicate with a non-JW....I have noticed that when a JW talks to me, they attempt to draw me in by showing me where the bible I use has Jehovah in it, and then they offer to use "my bible", all along showing me how much more readable the NWT is, hoping to make the switch. I feel that they do this to try to lull one into feeling that the NWT is just another of many translations.

  For a 'in the truth' JW, the reasoning book is quite valuable....

  Not sure if the NWT is amongst the 'best' WTS publications (I have not read any of them with a non-critical view), but the NWT coupled with reasoning is amongst their tried and true 'weapons'.
• 

  Chalam

  Hello Jeff,

  Stephen, I understand that the NWT has certain passages that obscure Jesus, but I agree with Narkissos that a simple reading of the NWT in context can, by itself, draw anyone paying attention to a different conclusion from what the GB would have you believe.

  I agree, the NWT is no obstacle to the Spirit and there are those that have seen that the NWT does not stack up against the WT doctrines and even itself.

  Those that see it usually leave the clutches of the WT sooner or later and switch to a real bible.

  My conclusion is this, the NWT can lead the reader to Jesus and away from the WT. That said, for the vast majority it is so badly written along with tampering or core issues (Jesus) that the majority of readers get confused. Before long they sit back and soak up all the WT "answers" wholesale.

  I think you understand the textural part of what I am saying but as yet you are not grasping the spiritual darkness that is embedded in the NWT from the WT.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  possible-san

  Narkissos.
  
  I understood your intention somewhat.
  However, I had answered to Mr. Chalam's post.
  So, I think that Mr. Chalam does not understand your intention, from the beginning.

  But your title is confusing.
  Moreover, your title is very similar of the latest thread.
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/179360/1/New-World-Translation-is-it-the-best-bible-translation
  
  Probably, confusion occurred, since your thread was too close to that.
• 

  designs

  A Fundamentalist critiquing a Witness on theology and beliefs makes about as much sense as Hilter lecturing Mussolini on ethics and morals.
• 

  thomas15

  possible-san asks:

  Chalam,

  I asked you.
  "Why does the NIV add "the" which is not in the Greek text? ("In the beginning...")"

  The answer is because the english grammar requires it. The word "the" is a definate article in english and the only other possible articles are indefinate articles "a" and "an". The indefinate "an" will not work gramatically. So if the translators used "a" then John would be making the case that there are more than one (1) beginnings of creation. This of course will not work so the NIV translators were left with the definate article "the".

  I have pointed this out before, greek aside, the translation of the NWT for John 1:1, by using the english indefinate article "a" (...a god) does not accomplish what the WT translators are trying to say. The indefinate article means that the noun following is one of many (do you own a car?) There are millions of cars that you could own, and the question is not asking "do you own that 2003 blue chevy S-10 vin 1254587ff112f5? which refers to only one possible car. The WT maintains that Jesus is a mighty god, not God Almighty. They (the WT) do not allow for any other "mighty gods" and therefore the NWT teaches polytheism.

  The NWT translators have a impossible task trying to make Jesus anything other than God. They did the best they could but in english, they raise more questions than they answer.
• 

  possible-san

  thomas15
  
  Thank you.
  
  Well, there is no "definite/indefinite article" in the Japanese language.
  So, how to use the definite/indefinite article in English is difficult for Japanese people.

  First of all, the Japanese are the nation who believes "Yaoyorozu-no-kami" (eight million gods).
  So, for the Japanese, "God" is not "the only God."

  In fact, "Shinto" of Japan and "Judaism" are very alike, and Judaism also allows existence of other gods.
  First of all, in Hebrew, the word "God" is the plural.

  possible