What is EVIL? Who Defines?

by D wiltshire 56 Replies latest jw friends

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  oscartheduck

  I'd just like to quantify...I said that in my opinion, it was getting off topic, due to a minor distinction. Not that it was utterly irrelevant, simply that it wasn't a TOTALLY relevant discussion. It was (probably) necessary for Farkel to say what he did for the discussion to advance. And that just because through my reasoning it's off topic, doesn't necessarily mean that it IS. I just presented one point of view from which it could be considered off topic...

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  The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "
• 

  D wiltshire

  oscar,

  I agree not totally irrelevant, but enough to confuse the topic.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  Farkel

  Oscar,

  : Thus, in claiming that through defining right as actions performed by God, you're telling us that we can see things upholding to the standard of GOOD. However, for the purposes of the negative definition of EVIL it becomes necessary to cut to the chase, so to speak, and say that if the actions of God are RIGHT then the definition that we are after, ie GOOD, is...and then state whatever the logical conclusion is (which is, I believe, in this case, whatever moral code God adheres to).

  Basically you (so far) are missing the point I made and which D Wiltshire is incapable of even understanding. In my article on the Divine Command Theory, I could have just as easily used the terms "Good" and "Evil" as "Right" and "Wrong" or "Good" and "Bad." It wouldn't have changed the argument in the least. D Wiltshire was cornered (that's why he wouldn't respond to a SINGLE rebuttal I made to him and just brushed me off) and so he tried to trivialize what I said by saying I was "off topic." But since my argument stays exactly the same when you substitute "Evil" for "Bad," or "Evil" for "Wrong" his claim is a strawman.

  If God defines "Evil," God is arbitrary. If God doesn't define "Evil" then "Evil" is a standard outside of God. If the latter is true then the eating of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" was a test that God was bound to enforce and not a test he was 100% in charge of creating.

  My argument was simply this: either God defines Evil or he doesn't. The original theme that D Wiltshire started in this thread contained as part of the title regarding "Evil": "Who defines it?" That makes my article relevant to his topic, and he would be a fool to deny otherwise. Which is probably why he will deny otherwise.

  Farkel

  "I didn't mean what I meant."
• 

  D wiltshire

  Farkel,
  Since you claim that we can interchange evil for right I will respond:

  , I could have just as easily used the terms "Good" and "Evil" as "Right" and "Wrong" or "Good" and "Bad." It wouldn't have changed the argument in the least.

  Okay I will give you the benifit of the doubt.

  If God defines "Evil," God is arbitrary.

  Prove that that God is arbitrary by defining Evil. You make this statement but furnish no proof or example to test.

  If God doesn't define "Evil" then "Evil" is a standard outside of God.

  Evil is not a standard.
  God has absolute knowlegde and he can correctly clasify something as evil with 100% accuracy.

  If the latter is true then the eating of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" was a test that God was bound to enforce and not a test he was 100% in charge of creating.

  First prove that evil is a standard.
  I don't get how how you draw this conclusion. Seems to me you draw conclusions that are your own in order to make your argument seem right.
  First show everyone that your conclusions are right.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  D wiltshire

  Fark,

  I'm sorry I just read this again this morning:

  With regards to all your other "possibilities" about how evil is determined, you again did not paste my original statement and refute it. You merely gave a list of your own "other possibilities", again hoping to divert readers from my real argument, which was:

  : I stated that good and evil (right and wrong) is either defined by God or it isn't. If you can come up with any other options, you are either an incredible genius, or are taking serious medication!

  Funky asked me to give other possiblities so I did. I didn't know it is proper dicussion proceedure to paste your original statement which we all knew.
  Well anyway it's right up top here.

  So you are putting every thing under your strict ARBRITRARY control to make your argument work. Only two choices like it or not, it my way or the freeway sound kinda arbitrary don't it.
  Your ad hominem just clouds this issue.
  If something is true it doesn't need such tight controls artificially applied to be true.
  Your black and white logic doesn't befit a person who came out of mind control.
  Can we leave a cult and still carry a little residual mind set?
  I know I have still some Cult thinking, when I see it I try replace it with something a little more open minded.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  oscartheduck

  Farkel,

  The fact that you COULD have used other terms doesn't mean you DID.

  If we were to start accepting what people meant rather than what they said, then this discussion would probably have ended a long time ago.

  Either way, I think we've debated this point long enough for my liking, it's not got anywhere farther forward than "There is a definition for evil, we don't know what it is but we can hazard guesses".

  So I'll bow out.

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  The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "
• 

  D wiltshire

  Just like to repeat:

  Part of my purpose in starting this thread was to explore my feeling that we can't really say with definity what is Evil absolutly in every case, unless we have absolute knowledge.

  Example:
  Man guns down little old lady in the mall. We could say that was evil based on our limited knowledge.
  Then more facts come to light and we find that the little old lady was part of a terrorist group and she had a atomic bomb in her suit case and the man that gunned her down was a government agent who saved every one in the mall and surrounding area.
  We can keep adding more facts to this senerio and each time change it from evil to good and back again.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?