Why is the US so afraid of Social Health Care?

by eyeslice 298 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  beksbks

  Hiding behind the scary government is just an excuse because the government is there to pass laws whether you like it or not and a lot of those laws or processes interfere a lot more than healthcare would. Red herring. Smoke screen.

  Not just hiding behind the scary government Sammieswife, buying into what we've been told for about 30 years now. That "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" These words told to us by the government. Actually the government who began the systematic dismantling of America. It's more than a red herring, it's pure evil and it has encouraged citizens to forget that the government is here to help us, that's thier job, and it's our job to tell them how.
• 

  Mary

  coffeeblack said: Our police forces are local. They are not run by the Federal Government. And while public schools have some federal funding, they are mostly funded locally and are paid for by local real estate taxes. So we are not talking about similar things here. I seriously doubt that any American would want the Federal Government to run the police forces. That is something better left to local control. Fire depts. are also funded on the local level. Running a huge government program is far different than running a local school or fire department.

  You're right, these things are run at the local level, but my point is: they are socialized and universal and every American has the Right to them, no matter how they're funded. And whether it's funded at the local level, or by the Federal government, it is your tax dollars that pay for these services and no one can be refused the Right to these services. And so it should be with health care coverage.

  If you were to get universal health care, it wouldn't be run really at the Federal level, just as ours in Canada isn't. It's run mostly at the Provincial level. In Alberta, it's called Alberta Heath Care; in Ontario, it's called Ontario Health Insurance Plan. So I would assume that in the USA, it would be done mostly at the State level.

  That is my biggest problem with it as well as trusting the politicians who have already messed up so much. I do not trust them. They have given me little reason to.

  Ah, have no fear.....no one anywhere ever really trusts their governments......there's corruption in every aspect of government and some of the dumb shits we've got up here should be in prison for some of the crap they've pulled. I'd run for Prime Minister but I figure I'd be assassinated within a week.

  The real solution of course, is the New System of Tings!! Which should be here any day now...........
• 

  beksbks

  LWT, re the Blue Dogs, I think that's exactly what it is. They are afraid, their constituents are buying into the hoopla (which they very likely are) and they undoubtedly have lobbyists massaging them with campaign funding promises. As I mentioned to in another post, I've never said there aren't any stupid or greedy Democrats. Don't forget the stupid part.

  My favorite radio guy said "other than maybe 80 or so progressives, we have the best Congress money can buy". I agree.
• 

  beksbks

  Hey Mary? If a Canadian wanted to purchase extra health insurance, is it available?
• 

  Gregor

  Does it come down to the Blue Dogs that will NOT get re-elected if they vote for it?

  Leaving, the answer is apparently YES. Since the presidents plan will never be put on a referendum the next best thing the public can do is exercise their right to vote for or against their representatives. This also means that if Obama does not get his 1100+ page socialized medicine scheme passed it is fair to say it is a referendum on him as well. This is his baby. From what I have seen on the Sunday shows there are signs he has already decided to water down the plan. We'll soon see.
• 

  Mary

  Hey Mary? If a Canadian wanted to purchase extra health insurance, is it available?

  Yep. You can either get it through your employer (in alot of cases), or purchase it individually. I managed to get a job at my old place of employment and some of our benefits are excellent, others are okay. Our short and long term disability benefits are excellent. Short term disability kicks in the day you start and you get fully paid for up to 6 months if you're off say with cancer like I was a few years ago. I got 100% of my normal paycheque. Had I been off more than 6 months, the insurance would have kicked in and I would have got 80% of my pay, but would have actually ended up with more. For some strange reason, the government doesn't view insurance as "income" and you don't get taxed on it.

  I get covered for massage, physiotherapy, chiropractor, osteopath, etc. at about $600.00/year for each one. We're covered for semi-private or private rooms in a hospital, 80% of dental (our dental plan actually sucks---it's always based on two-years previous guide), medical devises like walkers, wheelchairs, etc.

  So yes, it's available.
• 

  SixofNine

  If passing the bill is a slam dunk for Democratic majorities, then why wouldn't they pass it, even if for purely selfish reasons? Does it come down to the Blue Dogs that will NOT get re-elected if they vote for it?

  Because it's a massive undertaking, and it will take a few years to phase in. No one knows for sure that it's a "slam dunk" case in 2010 (one year from now), that's one person's speculation.

  Also, as you well know, these "blue dogs" are owned by the insurance companies, so it's hard for them to gauge the bigger threat: democrats not voting for them, or their money spigot being turned off - in which case they would not have the money to finance an election and they could be vulnerable to anyone.

  One thing to remember is that someone can truly believe that the only way to change the system is to work from within the system, even if you get dirty doing so. Much as that line of reasoning goes against every fiber of my soul.

  All that said, a reform bill IS going to pass. The only question is whether it will favor the people, or the corporations.

  I realized something ironic today; traditionally it has been the poor and lower middle class who have been duped into voting against their own interest. But now, suddenly, you have the upper-middle and (some of the) wealthy class roaring against their own interest. Here's how it works: The bill that passes is going to make an attempt, and it's going to largely succeed, in covering the majority of the 47 million uninsured and solidifying coverage for the 20 million or so more who are underinsured. Let's say that the loud-mouths are right, eventually, taxes have to be raised, let's further assume that raising taxes on the over 250K crowd just won't do it; they have to dip down into the 150K+ people.

  Ya with me? Good, because what is NOT going to happen, is taxes get raised on the couple making 75k or even 100K, the vast, vast majority of Americans (and yes, that point deserves italics, bolding, underlining, and highlighting). But ok, let's say somebody is going to pay higher taxes (and deservedly so, the very wealthy have been sucking from the social tit and gotten VERY fat at the expense of everyone else in the past few decades). Well what is a bigger hit? Healthcare for 47 million people under for-profit Cigna corporate types? Or healthcare for 47 million people adminstered by a medicare type plan?

  Because either way you slice it, we've decided we're not going to be a country with 46 million people uninsured.
• 

  beksbks

  There is more than one bill out there, so we have no idea what Obamas 1100+ pages actually are, and it isn't "his baby". This country has been discussing this subject for almost 100 years. Teddy Roosevelt wanted to pass national health insurance.
• 

  Gregor

  Let the double talk begin.
• 

  beksbks

  Double talk?