by eyeslice 298 Replies latest jw friends
The only thing I trust officials to do is benefit themselves; I just align myself with the party who, in benefitting themselves, will benefit me.
And yet earlier on this thread those of us who do not agree with a socialized healthcare system are assumed to be selfish....
There are some of us who truly want to help others, not just ourselves...
Coffee
Greed and ignorance triumphs over intellect and compassion. Again.
Coffee...Like you, I want to help others, but I do not and never will support a socialized healthcare system. The left automatically assumes that if you are against government programs, you are against helping others. This isn't true. Read leavingwt's link above. The co-op alternative looks promising although I would like more information on how it would be structured.
What is interesting is how much debate this has generated.
If this subject is one we cannot get to grips with in the developed West, just think of the problems in developing countires who now have to decide how to spend their wealth. Take India for example, a country that has seen fantastic economic growth in recent years but has absolutlely no social welfare at all. If you get sick and have no money, you simply die.
journey-on,
I think you misunderstood my post/s. I am against a socialized healthcare system as well. I was accused of being selfish because of that statement... and a few comments above, Justinia said
"The only thing I trust officials to do is benefit themselves; I just align myself with the party who, in benefitting themselves, will benefit me."
I was just pointing out the irony.
Coffee
coffee...I understood what you were saying and your connecting it to JT's statement re his on self-interest (which makes sense, btw, to me). I was just letting you know that those calling you selfish are totally off the mark. Their leftist way of thinking won't allow them to understand where you are coming from.
What do you think of the co-op alternative?
This, from willyloman is worth repeating:
Americans are NOT afraid of healthcare reform nor are they opposed to it. The current debate is no longer about whether we should have healthcare reform and universal healthcare. It is about whether a bill can be passed in the present political climate.
The Republicans held power for 8 years, during which time they bankrupted the economy by starting a war with ulterior motives, suspended many of our rights under the Constitution, moved the American political agenda far to the right, and created huge opportunities for wealth for their friends. They did this with a propaganda machine that Goebbels would have envied.
Now having lost power, they have launched a propaganda initiative, planned long ago, to cast doubt on the Democratic president's reforms - which had been vetted by the American people in the last election and endorsed by a significant margin of victory. Their vicious propaganda assault, aided by their previous purchase of their own media empire, is designed to derail healthcare for only one reason: Passage of a successful healthcare package would run President Obama's popularity up the chart and assure not only his reelection in 2012 but an unassailable majority in both houses of Congress post-2010.
That is something the Republicans cannot, will not, allow to happen if they can help it; and they are doing everything in their power to prevent it. Bottom line: This is all about power.
For example, I don't know of anyone who actually believes the 'death panel' scenario, even here at JWD. Yet, it is repeated and given weight, even though it is clearly a fabrication. This is not about healthcare - it is about power; a revolutionary power that does not recognize the legitimacy of the current administration. The implications for the future are staggering.
P.S. Coffee, hon, you're going to dislocate something if you don't stop trying to pat yourself on the back.
journey-on,
I think you misunderstood my post/s. I am against a socialized healthcare system as well. I was accused of being selfish because of that statement... and a few comments above, Justinia said
"The only thing I trust officials to do is benefit themselves; I just align myself with the party who, in benefitting themselves, will benefit me."
I was just pointing out the irony.
Coffee
I don't see the irony at all. You asked me who I "trusted." I said neither, and explained why. How do we get from the motivations of the political elite to you? In addition, I articulated that I aligned myself with the party I feel best supports the middle-class and not the elite; I assume the vast majority of people on this DB are middle-class; therefore, what benefits me, benefits the masses. So I'm not understanding how supporting the party or policy that supports a thriving middle-class, sometimes to the detriment of the elite, is being selfish. ...perhaps this is a forest-for-the trees moment for me. ????
BTW, I'm against a socialized healthcare system also; I don't want the government owning hospitals. I am for social healthcare, which is when tax dollars are used to pay bills submitted by private hospitals. Your use of the term "socialized healthcare" is an emotionally loaded term that conservative strategists have encouraged right-wing politicians and pundits to use so as to demonize the Obama plan. They deducted that the "average Joe" wouldn't understand the difference, and the term would bring visions of Russia streaming to peoples minds.
Again, by the number of times the term has been bantered on this dicussion board alone, it appears their calculation was spot-on.
semantics, Justitia, semantics. The average "Joe" as you put it understands much more than you think. He may call it socialized healthcare when maybe he should have used a different terminology, but, the average Joe that is looking at this issue sees much more than you are giving him credit for. People generally "get it": politicians play games with us....people know that. The initial effect of their emotional buzz words may initiate the reaction of which you speak, but once they become informed, they "get it."
This is a link to a National Newspaper here. Look at the statistics given at the bottom of the page too.
And we have a higher life expectancy here.
Me thinks we are getting a good deal here
Regards David
