Agnostic Christianism

by AK - Jeff 22 Replies latest jw experiences

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    By definition, an agnostic is, well, agnostic about his belief in God. He doubts, or maybe he just wonders. But he is not a solid believer. Robert Ingersoll stated;

    "Like the most of you, I was raised among people who knew --
    who were certain. They did not reason or investigate. They had no
    doubts. They knew that they had the truth. In their creed there was
    no guess -- no perhaps. They had a revelation from God. They knew
    the beginning of things. They knew that God commenced to create one
    Monday morning, four thousand and four years before Christ. They
    knew that in the eternity -- back of that morning, he had done
    nothing. They knew that it took him six days to make the earth --
    all plants, all animals, all life, and all the globes that wheel in
    space. They knew exactly what he did each day and when he rested.
    They knew the origin, the cause of evil, of all crime, of all
    disease and death."

    Why I am an Agnostic 1896

    That was, coincidently, my lot also. Perhaps it was yours. Or perhaps I should say, it was almost surely yours if you were reared in the West. I was told, I believed, I made those beliefs part of my soul. When I became disenfranchised, I questioned, I meandered mentally, I lost and regained my faith a half dozen times. Spirituality became a blank slate, most often chalkless, stared at by a student with no teacher of authority to instruct me. I wandered thru the morass of questions and potential answers again and again. Once I began to separate the fear of not knowing, from the emptiness of inability to prove anything at all, the healing began. I began to realize that life was not a puzzle solved by connecting the dots. The dots could not be connected, for there was no solid sinew of provable facts to sew them together in an indisputable fabric called faith. And all the dots could not be found.

    Hence my growing Agnostic opinion. Agnosticism, as I define it at least, is not a 'doubting' of God. No. But a serene awareness that God cannot be proven to exist. At least I cannot prove him to be. I certainly cannot prove that God understands or cares. He cannot be shown to have compassion, or to have ever selected anyone as his servant. All we have are the claims of those who say they have either spoken to in some way, or have been convinced that God is real, that he cares, that he will solve the frustrations that have faced mankind for all of mankind's existence. And books. All of them written by man, edited by man, and promoted by man. The writings are shakey, therefore the faith built on them is just as soft. It is not a hard law of reality, but a soft acceptance of words claiming divinity. Such faith is often built, as Ingersoll stated, on the traditions passed on to us by parents, or nation, or culture, more than any individual interpretation of solid evidence. In fact, it is almost never otherwise, is it?

    I am not convinced of any need to disprove God. But am totally calm in the realization that I need not do so. For, should I prove the non-God hypothesis, of what am I advanced? Should I prove the opposite, now that would be something of worth perhaps. I am not so inclined, as millions, indeed billions before me and surrounding me now, have advanced theory and invested lifetimes in futile effort to show any shred of evidenciary to that effect. Another life sacrificed on that treadmill seems wasted.

    Agnostic opinion is not about confirmation of theological rhetoric. Indeed, I describe it as oxymoron, an epiphany of subtle realization that no such search has to abandoned, as no search is underway. Not to advance that no search was ever begun. It was. It proved nothing of concrete nature. The choice to discontinue any meaningless search was not intellectual, nor totally clear at first. It was intuitive perhaps, though the shades of that term only partially clad the shadow. It was as if I suddenly awoke understanding that I no longer needed to peer into darkness. That my sight was not intermittent, but I was blind, without compass, with no map. To search would be foolhardy. The search was always about me anyway, never about God, for he never let himself be found. It was always about my salvation, never about his glory, no matter how I cloaked the matter.

    Agnosticism is not a soft, lazy, answer to the question of a Great Cause either. It is the end of a quest for me, not a tiring of that quest. That quest may be revisted again in this lifetime. Or perhaps that quest has been permanently put to rest. Only time, circumstance, and the billions of firings of neurons will tell.

    Why Christianism? Just for sake of culture perhaps. I live in a Christian nation. Most people relate to Christian values, ideas, theology. Most understand the teachings of Jesus. I find them compelling on some levels, adoptable as virtue. Those same compelling virtues are attainable through many teachings and philosophy. Had I found myself at this crossroads and living a peasant in India, I may have called my viewpoint, Agnostic Janism or Agnostic Hinduism. If I had been reared among the simple people of Tibet, I may have referred to it as Bongo Agnosticism. Life-values can be sipped from different perspectives, and be roundly identical in application. Perhaps it could be called Agnostic Virtuism. It carries, I hope, the idea that Agnostic ideology is not deviod of moral opinion or virtuous activity. Or at least my brand is not. Just the opposite indeed.

    I join the ranks of many. Others will join this fraternity. Some will leave. I rejoice in the beauty of man to do that, to take his free will and find happiness in whatever way he ranks his understanding of the world and the universe around himself.

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    For those interested, Ingersoll's article, from which I quote, is available here - I find him inspiring, and share much of his opinion regarding the matter.

    http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/why_i_am_agnostic.html

    Jeff

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    Why Christianism? Just for sake of culture perhaps. I live in a Christian nation. Most people relate to Christian values, ideas, theology. Most understand the teachings of Jesus. I find them compelling on some levels, adoptable as virtue. Those same compelling virtues are attainable through many teachings and philosophy.

    I have actually considered adopting this as a mantra. I find myself restless still, and I don't know how to interpret that yet in myself.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    I am still busy 'interpreting' ATJ. This is a good place to land to survey for me at the moment.

    Jeff

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    Aren't we all agnostic? Theists and atheists alike.

  • Meeting Junkie No More
    Meeting Junkie No More

    Beautifully written, AK-Jeff - I really enjoyed reading that.

    So maybe that's what I am - an Agnostic Virtuist! My own ideas are so fluid now, that I can allow myself to see just about everybody's viewpoint and it is a pleasure to be able to open myself up to new ones all the time.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    Aren't we all agnostic? Theists and atheists alike

    Seems to me that those are extremes that occupy a continuum, with agnostic stuck in the middle somewhere. Just my opinion.

    Jeff

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    This was a good thread for me to read at the time, and I have further observations....

    First of all, I doubt what I am going to say will thrill either atheists or theists. Truth be told, I don't subscribe exclusively to either, and general definitions of what a theist or atheist is doesn't describe me or my journey at all.

    I am seriously considering re-establishing contact with a Christian community, but it has the last thing to do with worshipping Jesus, accepting him as my "savior" or anything of the sort.

    I still don't worship anyone or thing, and can't see that happening ever.

    However, I can only rip out so much of my self in what was deeply rooted, what I will call my Judeo Christian Bible ethic. The fact is, there is a lot there that my inner self recognizes and feels comfortable with. (worshipping, believing the bible to be some kind of supernatural instruction manual is not one of them)

    I doubt I can do any better then a very liberal church that will accept my doubts. (Episcopalians come to mind) But on the one hand, while it is healthy for me to rid myself of all superstition, it has been increasingly unhealthy for me to stay isolated from all people as a result of differences in religious thought and theory.

    I know that this is picking and choosing, but it also has the virtue of being personally honest.

    More and more, my focus is on "What is healthy for me?" My exit from JW's can't only be about taking away, and not filling in what I ripped out.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Jeff,

    It is my opinion that Christian churches are chock full of folks just like yourself.

    Picking and choosing is what Liberty is all about. Carry on.

    -LWT

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi all,

    Just to clarify, an agnostic believes that God is unknowable.

    Largely, that leaves room for that God the Creator but one who doesn't care about creation, interact with it or wish beings within the creation to interact with Him. Some subscribe with this notion.

    Personally, I did not wish to interact with God for years although I knew He was interacting with me. I decided "sin" was far too appealing and I knew God wasn't a fan. After much sin I found out it wasn't much fun in the long run and I had enough of feeding the pigs and eating their lunch Luke 15:11-31

    I know that this is picking and choosing, but it also has the virtue of being personally honest.

    Jeff, that's cool. You need to understand grace :) I was not a fan of worship or even Jesus when I returned to church. If was hard enough to even think that God was "OK".

    Anyhow, ask Him to find you a church, one that He goes to and one you will enjoy. He know what is best :)

    All the best,

    Stephen

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