So what's wrong with being a "Cult"? (page 2)

JeffT

I lot of scholars I've been reading prefer the term "high control group" because it is descriptive of what they do, and avoids the associations with the word "cult." Certainly the WTBS fits "high control group."

WTWizard

I will say that not all cults are mind-control. For instance, if a product is particularly good but most people do not see it that way, it will have a small group that will be cult-like in its loyalty to that product. The mini disc is one of those products--I got into that "cult" when they got a standard mini disc to fit 5 hours of music without a computer (and I could process the music as I saw fit). In fact, to this day I still use mini discs instead of cassette tapes (mini discs are not going to tangle, drag, play off speed, take all year to wind, or break and you can shuffle the songs on the disc, and change the disc at will to whatever music you feel like playing). And they are fairly secure because mini disc never went mainstream.

Another "good cult" is formed when a good idea that is being suppressed by the Establishment comes along. You have a few people that believe that drugs are very highly abused and that there are other ways to manage (and even cure) diseases. The Establishment does all it can to discredit these people, which relegates it to the minority (and many people are with the Establishment). Kevin Trudeau is a prime example of this--people buy his books, try something, find it works well, and are hooked without any hierarchy of enforcement or mind control (while others view him as a quack and a scam artist). There are other groups that are so sound that they support belief in them without anyone forcing them--even when independent sources are read, many of the attacks are blatantly from the Establishment and intended to suppress something to protect the status quo.

When you start making rules arbitrarily, and then start enforcing them with punishments such as damnation and being cut off from family, you begin to cross the line (notice that none of these alternative healing groups do this). They often blame the victim when things do not work (this is common in business cults, even though they do not officially cut off people by shunning). They start demanding more and more time from the victims, while sucking them dry financially. They have to start threatening people if they break the rules or want out of the group (no sound group has to do that to retain membership). Very often, they lie to get people in and then start asking them to start using the same lies to get others in (business cults do this, too).

At its worst, a cult starts dictating to its members what they can and cannot do, under threat of displeasing God or of major failure. They cannot get out without severe penalties, and virtually everything they do is what the leaders tell them to. Some sacrifice members' lives; others use them up and then throw them away. They are told not to think independently, and often banned if they do. The members are required to believe the same thing, and will reinforce that belief. Outsiders are often looked down on, and association with outsiders is often discouraged (this is most common with religious cults, since business type cults require association with outsiders as potential customers). Family is supposed to be dragged into the cult, so if one sees the faults, they are going to be hit with great hardship.

What one should ask is, does the cult create problems where none existed, or does it solve problems that exist and the world at large fails to solve? Does it allow people to research it using independent sources? How much time and money are you going to have to invest in this, and what happens if you stop? Is there a system of hounding and enforcing rules, and is recruiting others a major part of the group? (Besides advertisement, where the advertisers are compensated fairly for doing that service.) Is there a lot of Web sites with real life stories about how lives are ruined when family members join the cult, or people who struggled to leave it and were damaged by it? Do they inflate or fabricate the value of the membership, or do you join only to be hooked because it is creating value for you? The bad ones are almost always going to cost you more than you receive in benefits, stifle independent thinking and criticism when things do not work (the good ones will allow for a measure of imperfection and failures; the bad ones do not), and are going to mess up your life.

And, if you research the subject and find a lot of web sites of people whose lives were ruined by the group, it is almost certainly a damaging cult that you should not join.

PSacramento

I have been doing Martial Arts since '78, in that time I have been exposed to many MA cults, perhaps none more "intense" than that of TCMA ( Traditional Chinese Martial Arts), you bascialy need to give up your identidy to belong and to learn the "REAL" Kung Fu, the stuff of Legends.

The stuff of CRAP !

People loving being a part of a cult because it fills a need to belong AND to be special, unique and the people that run the cults KNOW this and exploit it and the members.

Religious cults are by far the worse because they manipulat and intimidate not only in the name of God ( or whatever) but because they prey on a persons hope for themselves AND their loved ones. Cults ruin lives and none more than religious fanatical cults that pride themselves on the isolationist views.

parakeet

Fleaman: I leave my kids with jw family lots of times.

Putting aside "mind control" "mental illness" and "pedophillia" for the moment, what if your child had an accident and had to be rushed to the ER, where an M.D. said an immediate blood transfusion was essential to save his/her life? And there's no time to call you and ask for permission.

Are you willing to let that decision rest in the hands of dubs? Do you 100% believe they would respect your wishes? Huge gamble to take on the lives of your children.

jamiebowers

I wouldn't want any of the children in my family to be alone with a JW. I consider mind control, mental illness, and pedophilia pretty dangerous

Ridiculous, your daft comment screams overreaction. I leave my kids with jw family lots of times. There is no "mind control" "mental illness" or "pedophillia" anywhere to be seen.

Heaven's comment wasn't daft or an overreaction. Even if jw relatives aren't mentally ill or pedophiles, they belong to a group that is so mind controlled that they don't identify child molesters in their midst. People who work at schools, daycare and recreation centers, places where children frequent, are required to background check to eliminate possible threats to kids for good reason.

BabaYaga

LeavingWT... thank you for that link from JWFacts. Worth repeating...

What's Wrong with Being a Jehovah's Witness? http://www.jwfacts.com//watchtower/wrong-with-being-jehovahs-witness.php

Thanks, too, to drwtsn32, for the link to the Warning Signs of a Cult: http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist. Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

Agreed with the others who said that it is not necessarily ONE individual, but can be a very small GROUP of individuals who completely dictates every action and even the THOUGHTS of the followers. Yes, I would say that Dictionary.com definition was "pretty vanilla", indeed.

undercover

Outside of this board I don't use the word "cult" and JWs together in a sentance. It is counter productive, especially if you're trying to get a JW family member to see the control issues. If you say "cult", they're going to retreat further into JWism for protection.

I agree that not all cults are dangerous. Some can be very benign. But the problem is that once somebody is in the cult, if that cult were to change to a harmful cult, then the possibility of escape will be even less.

Another misnomer, as already mentioned, is that the cult doesn't have to have one, charismatic messiah leader. A group of leaders can be just as destructive.

parakeet

So what's wrong with being a "Cult"?

Nothing. As long as you don't mind being controlled, ignorant, intolerant, and braindead.

behemot

What's a cult? It just means not enough people to make a minority. -- Robert Altman, Interview, The Observer, London, April 11, 1981

Satanus

Actually, the wt has had at least 3 charismatic leaders; fred franz, jf rutherford, and charley russel. It's founder, ct russel was very charismatic. Presently, don't the dubbies oooh and aaahh when a member of the gb comes to town to speechify? So, while there isn't an INDIVIDUAL that we can point to as being a charismatic leader, the gb as a group fits the bill. They have grandized their own stature within the group, over the yrs w much writings, referring to themselves as faithful and discreet, wise servant, god's mouth piece, god's prophet like person, only true religion, etc, etc. Lately, the gb has been hot and heavy in emphasizing their own importance in the universe.

S

So what's wrong with being a "Cult"?

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