To AndersonsInfo:Hi Barbara,
Once again I'm in
awe of your Fact Finding Prowess.
Although I can't find fault in ANY of your facts, I however
respectfully disagree with SOME of your conclusions.
So as not to weigh this thread down, with one large multi-page response of all the conclusions I disagree with, I propose we discuss/debate only a few conclusions at a time.
After a few back and forth exchanges, let's decide to either "Agree" or "agree to disagree" on each particular conclusion, and move on to the next few ones.
How does that sound to you?
(
disclaimer to other thread readers: Since I have very limited daily "free time" to spend here. (you know how "busy" we JW's are
) Please don't be offended if I fail to respond individually to you all. I do read ALL comments. Thank you)
Conclusion #1:It's WT leaders, not elders, who are responsible for all the harm. My Geneva, Switz. lecture posted here for new ones & Sola Scriptura to read
I respectfully disagree with this statement. Here's why:
I agree WT leaders (including DOs & COs) bare a heavy burden for their initial insensitive attitude to this very important issue. Like Harry Peloyan said above: "change came “after more than 5 years of blood, sweat, and tears,”
But Elders Gone Wild™, cowardly boy like Elders and negligent Parents bare equal (if not more blame). The only truly innocent ones in all of this are the Children.
(disclaimer: I'm not saying ALL Parents are negligent... so bare with me)
Why do I say this?
I will use a case from your transcript to explain my viewpoint:
The court records contained a case of a girl in Oregon who was abused from the time she was 5 until she was 14 years old by a JW ministerial servant. She always knew it was wrong and suffered depression and drug problems as she grew older. She complained to her family who spoke to the elders and yet no one reported the man to the police. Because he was not reported to the authorities, this pedophile molested as many as fifty kids in the community including the girl’s brother. The girl ran away from home just so she would be picked up and put in a foster home and then she believed she would be safe from her molester. Otherwise she would have had to endure more times when he would pick her up at her home to take her into the door-to-door ministry, but rather than do that, he molested her. At JW conventions, during noon breaks, he’d come get her, take her to his van and rape her. In foster care this girl told caregivers about the abuse and he was arrested and confessed. Asked by the police why she allowed the abuse, she replied it was because the man was God’s chosen servant!
This poor girl 1st complained to her Family (A child's 1st line of defense), who in turn complained to the Elders.
Why the Elders did nothing, I do not know.
Why didn't at least 1 Elder anonymously report the abuse to Police, regardless of whether its a reporting state or not? Who would know? It's an anonymously phone call.
Why didn't the Parents go to Police on their own? (Their is NO WT leadership mandate preventing or "discouraging" Parents from going to the Police on their own. If I am wrong please present proof)
Why did these Parents allow A Grown Man to pick up their teenage daughter at conventions & from their home, alone, to go "in service" on a regular basis?
Barbara, I assume you were a Good Parent. At the height of your former JW "Indoctrination", would you have followed blindly in the footsteps of these parents.
Barbara, I believe, by what you have told us, that your husband Joe was a Great Elder. Would he have ignored this child's cry for help just because he could not do anything "officially" to the pedophile in a Congregational setting?
I don't have the FULL facts of this case, but based purely on the above statement the Parents were either consistently negligent in their care of their daughter or "wildly" naive.
The WT leadership has hammered into all of it's Elders and Rank & File's heads, that it is not wise for a Man to be alone with a woman he is not married too (adult or young woman... ie 14). Even in congregation sanctioned duties.
Can you imagine NO ONE gossiping about always seeing these 2 alone. Somebody had to see them alone and wonder in our very JW Judgmental way "That's odd, Brother X is Always hanging around young sister Y. It was cute when she was little but she's a young woman now. That is just not appropriate! I'm calling the Elders about this"
The Local Elders dropped the ball on this. The Parents totally ignored the ball.
(disclaimer: I'm commenting only on the Facts available to me at the moment... The Parents could be totally innocent!)
The only heroes in this case are the foster care caregivers and the Police who arrested the pedophile.
"Let Caesar deal with the crime. Let Elders deal with the sin"™
"Let Caesar bag em and tag em."™
Barbara: Please Tell me how does this one particular case "prove" that all blame (100%) falls on the heads of the WT Leadership? Who most likely was not "fully" aware of the situation until after the arrest was made.
For your statement above to be completely true, 100% of the blame for the above case should be clearly traced to WT Leadership either through written proof or 1st hand verbal instructions from WT Leadership to these Particular Elders instructing them to IGNORE all that they have "Officially" written on handling Child Abuse cases.
The way I see it is this: Blame (Apart from the Pedophile) = WT 33%, Elders 33% Parents 33% Child 0%
Conclusion #2
Oh, by the way, as our message spreads that the Witness ringing doorbells with Bible in hand could be a convicted pedophile. what do you think will happen to the formerly high growth rate of conversion to this religion? The answer is obvious and it’s already happening!
I respectfully disagree with this statement. Here's why:
I don't think people in general are worried about JW pedophiles at their door, exercising their right to "Free Speech". Why?
(disclaimer: I'm not saying they should go...I'm just explaining why I disagree with your
conclusion)
99% of house holders ignore the JWs message at their door already, regardless of who's bringing them that message. The Majority of the remaining 1% who might listen and start a home bible study, are usually initially contacted by pioneers who are out more often & who are usually women. (Not that women aren't child molesters, but statistically Men are usually the perpetrators)
So the 5-10 hours that a convicted pedophile "might" spend Door to Door knocking on empty or unresponsive homes, doesn't constitute a Major Threat that is frightening the masses from opening their doors to us.
Pedophiles are usually very cunning and discrete. Most of them would avoid going after children in such a brazen open manner as "Door to Door" witnessing.
However, unregulated "Informal" witnessing by a JW pedophile is actually more of a threat to the public then "Door to Door" witnessing, because the pedophile might strike up a conversation with a single mother in a neutral environment, under the guise of a "spiritual" discussion, and wiggle his way into her & her child's life, via a "Family" Bible study. There's NO policy anyone can write to stop that.
Often pedophiles "groom" their victims for weeks, sometimes months before they make their 1st move. So a young child taken under the wing by a JW pedophile is a more likely scenario than a JW pedophile grabbing some kid who answers the door when their parents aren't home.
Conclusion #3
How would you as a parent like to attend a church and not be informed that a man considered a spiritual brother had served nearly 20 years in prison for child sexual abuse? That his prison records state he is a psychopathic deviant pedophile whose behavior cannot change? This is actually the case in one JW congregation where the pedophile’s past is kept confidential. At one time there were other convicted molesters in this congregation, yet only the elders knew about them. Obviously, these confidentiality policies protect pedophiles, not children.
You make it seem like other churches are doing something JWs are not. I could be wrong, so please name some Major Christian Religions who as their "Official Policy" announce to their congregation the PAST criminal records of their members?
We probably wouldn't be having this debate If the WT Leadership, like most other churches, had no "Official" Policy of dealing out punishment for proven Rank & File Child Abusers.
Conclusion #4
...I could no longer in good conscience remain in association with the group whose policies protected pedophiles rather than children.
You concluded that JWs policies protected pedophiles
RATHER than children.
I respectfully disagree with this statement. Here's why:
The WT Leadership "Official" policies protects
ALL of the following:
1) Victims of Child Abuse (
Green)
2) The "Rights" of Anyone, accused of something, of which has not
be proven or substantiated. (ie Innocent until Proven guilty) (
Blue)
3) Repentant former Child Abusers (Although rare, they
DO exsist) (
Red)
Here is the
proof for my above conclusions:
August 1 1995 Letter to Elders:
"Dear Brothers:
We are pleased to outline below some guidelines that we hope will be helpful to you inprotecting victims of child abuseand in dealing with a brother or sister in the congregation who has been guilty of sexually abusing a child.
When a member of the congregation is accused of child molestation, the elders should
contact the Society's Legal Department immediately. Many states make it mandatory that elders report an accusation to the proper authorities but other states do not.In those states where such is required, oftentimes the parent, the guardian, or the accused person himself can do the reporting. In this way the confidentiality protected by ecclesiastical privilege is not violated. Still, whether or not the accusation is reported to the authorities, when it is established that a member of the congregation is guilty of child abuse, appropriate steps should be taken in keeping with initial direction from the Society's Legal Department.
Additionally, steps should be taken to protect the child, or other children, from further
sexual abuse. Obviously, parents would be keenly interested in taking adequate precautions in this regard....
Loving elders, too, will want to act in a way that demonstrates their protective care, since the word "overseer" carries the thought of one who watches over, a guardian, a shepherd of the flock. Thus, they would want to take steps to protect a child abuse victim
when a judicial committee determines that the child molester is repentant and will remain a
member of the Christian congregation. The same concern would be shown when a pedophile is disfellowshipped and later cleans up his life and is reinstated.
It would be appropriate to talk very frankly to a former child abuser, strongly cautioning
him as to the dangers of hugging or holding children on his lap and that he should never be in the presence of a child without another adult beingpresent. This may prevent putting that one in the way of temptation or unfounded accusation. At the same time, it is good to remember that the Bible, at Matthew 12:31 and I Corinthians 6:9-11, shows it is possible for a person to stop his or her wrongful course, repent, and thereafter live in harmony with God's righteous standards. This is true of all wrongdoers even a former child abuser."
This ONE letter of many, clearly states "Concern" for Child Abuse Victims, at the same time being scripturally balanced with the "Rights" of the accused and "Mercy" for the Repentant sinner.
---
Paul said at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (The Message):
"...those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, ...don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom. A number of you know from experience what I'm talking about, for not so long ago you were on that list. Since then, you've been cleaned up and given a fresh start by Jesus..."
Pedophiles were common amongst pagan nations of Paul's day. ("the Greeks even had an educational philosophy based on pederasty" )
From this, I believe we can logically conclude, that Paul included Repentant former Child Abusers in this address.
Paul, being the detailed oriented person he was, did not say:
"By the way, all of you former Child Abusers can go home now because you have committed the "Unforgivable Sin" & Jesus' blood can't cleanse you"
Paul, being the detailed oriented person he was, did not say:
"By the way, to all you former Child Abusers, Jesus blood only partially cleanses you. From here on out you will be treated as half of a Brother until you receive your crown in heaven. Further more when you go to a new congregation you must become like a Leper and say to the entire congregation before you enter "Unclean! Unclean!""
Child Abuse is not a NEW problem.
Jesus blood cleanses ALL you wish to shower with it. Those who continually disrespect this cleansing by repeatedly getting dirty will be ultimately judged by God (Who can read the hearts of Men)
Hebrews 10:26 (The Message) says:
"If we give up and turn our backs on all we've learned, all we've been given, all the truth we now know, we repudiate Christ's sacrifice and are left on our own to face the Judgment—and a mighty fierce judgment it will be! If the penalty for breaking the law of Moses is physical death, what do you think will happen if you turn on God's Son, spit on the sacrifice that made you whole, and insult this most gracious Spirit? This is no light matter. God has warned us that he'll hold us to account and make us pay. He was quite explicit: "Vengeance is mine, and I won't overlook a thing" and "God will judge his people." Nobody's getting by with anything, believe me."
Barbara I await your response to my disagreements to conclusions #1-4
Agape,
---
Sola Scriptura
'A simple layman armed with Scripture is greater than the mightiest pope without it'
- Martin Luther
