Hear It For Yourself

by sammielee24 23 Replies latest jw friends

purplesofa

thanks for all your hard work sammie
White Dove

Obama got my vote and now he has my support!
John Doe

I really couldn't give less of a shit about how other countries percieve us. They're not running our show and they're not paying our bills. Why in the hell would anyone consider what other countries think when making homeland decisions?
Amazing

Sammielee24,

I think purps that it is because other countries are tired of the lies that Americans are believing.
What lies? Name one, and specifically who is telling it? Do not name some global vast right-wing conspiracy, instead name the person and quote them and give the source citation.
...some of those I read daily on this board and hear on all the talk radio (right wing) shows.
Who? Name a lie, quote the person and provide the source citation.
For people like Amazing who say that Americans aren't disrespecting other countries like Canada, they are wrong. I've sat and listened to Americans call people in other countries liars for telling about their own personal, good experiences because they can't fathom anyone having a good health care experience because the way it is applied, doesn't fit their ideology.
Who? name a quote a person and give source citations? Americans simply want debate and for issues from all sides to be heard. Many do not want a socialist model ... that is not disrespect, but rather a value system. If other nations want socialism, and like it that is their business.
I've had good care here in the USA but as I've said over and over again, I've had care as good as and better in Canada.
Great. The quality of care is not the issue, and to raise it is a red herring argument.
That is not disrespecting the American health care, it is a point of view having had experience with both. The entirety of care is
that of whole care and not based on just one aspect of it, financial, physical, emotional - and in my view all those considered,
Canada comes out on top.
That is your opinion. What Canadians like and want and what is good for Canada may not be good for America.
We are also tired of omissions. All those Canadian people running screaming for care in the USA are a figment of context.
Here in Chicago, a reputable ABC affiliate, WLS 890 radio, interviewed Canadians who tell us the problems with the Canadian system and why Canadians who need immediate care are rushed to the US because they cannot afford the wait in Canada. I recently listened to this program air in the last two months.
Snowbirds, 1.5 million of them bring tourist dollars to the USA and buy health insurance for the months they are here.
Please cite sources. What we are talking about are not tourists ... but actual patients who come to our hospitals for care.
The people using that insurance in the USA while they are in the USA are in the yearly figures that the right wing media keep spouting.
There is no "right-winged media in the USA. This is another popular myth. Fox News is often called right-winged because it features both sides, whereas ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, and others tend to mostly feature leftist views. Talk radio has more programs that lean right, but there are left-wings programs are well ... and of the thousands of news papers, only a handful lean right, such as the Washington Times.
...that is not people running over the border...it's people who have vacation homes here and who use the medical services they need while they are here with the insurance they bought. As for cross border - those surgeries are in fact far less than 1% of all care in Canada and those surgeries fall into two categories a) the wealthy who want to buy their way through the system because they don't want to wait and b)those paid for by Canada in agreements with USA hospitals who benefit from the payment just as the patient benefits from the care.
Far from it ... cite sources.
The very fact that Canada will pay for that care, is an indicator of the attitude of the government of the country...a far cry from the elderly being criminals because they try to import drugs from Canada and the government here won't let them.
The reason that the FDA will not permit imported drugs from Canada is that the sources are not controlled. It had to do with their lawful mandate. Illinois Gov. Blagojeivich attempted to get around this and import Canadian drugs ... but was stopped. Canadians pay for their drugs though their heavy taxation ... and that is good for them ... and they do not need Americans buying up their supplies, and driving up their prices.
The real issue is that socialism comes with a price ... a price that much of America does not want to pay ... we want some improvements in our "existing" system ... but our Government cannot even run a Post Office ... our infrastructure funds for highways and bridges is not being used properly, and our Government has stolen our Social Security to fund the Viet Nam war ... and we are going to trust them with out health care?
Canadians maybe love and trust their government ... but that is not for America.
Everyone everywhere is just getting tired of the lies and they just want it to stop and for American to deal with these dirty problems without constantly degrading the systems that work in their countries. They just want people to know there is another way to do business.....sammieswife.
What lies ... name names, quote and cite sources? Do not make this global jibber-jabber nonsense ... use some real arguments with facts and figures. We are well aware of various ways to do business ... we watched the Soviet Union socialism collapse of its own weight ... we all do not want to do that kind of business ... again, if Canada wants it, let them have it ... and for those Americans who want socialism, maybe they need to make a move elsewhere ... but socialism is not for America.
kurtbethel

Every nation has the right to tailor a health care system to meet the needs of their demographic. Whether any of the people in those nations look favorable to their system or not, it is not relevent to the US getting an optimal system. What really matters is that any plan being put forth provides actual improvements in patient outcome. The Obama administration has failed to put forth a demonstable plan that would do this. The only plan being put forward is unproven and untested, and they do not have the factual numbers to demonstrate it would be an improvement. They refused or are unwilling to do even basic homework and put forth those numbers to the public. The people are understandibly skeptical about the plan to the point of becoming activist about it. The administration had an opportunity to put forth a bold new system of health care delivery, but squandered their implementation of it.
SixofNine

Canadians pay for their drugs though their heavy taxation ...
No. For one thing, they (Canadians) are not "heavily taxed" wrt healthcare. This is obvious in that they pay less per person than in the USA. Also the drugs they buy cost less not because of government subsidies, but because of government negotiation on prices.
JWdaughter

I don't have a strong ideology about this healthcare thing(much to my husbands chagrin.) However, I do have the experience of meeting people that come here for medical services as I live in NW WA state, about an hour from the border and in the area where the first major medical services are to be found-particularly in the Children's Hospital where I met a few Canadian families getting medical care for children that was not obtainable in canada, for whatever reasons. In one specific case, I got the message that for most things it was great, but if you have a really sick kid and time is of the essence, maybe not so much.
I have also recently had a really good experience with my greedy, money grubbing health insurance (Blue Cross) that paid for a child's surgery that I had forgotten to get 'pre-approved' and which was not life and death, but ultimately, necessary. They(ins) called and asked me if I had preapproved it, and I gasped when I realized that I had not. She said she would check it out and a couple of weeks later I got the EOB stating it had been PIF. They had to have known it was coming, but if they were as evil as portrayed by some media, they would have refused pmt. and bankrupted us.Of course, I could have continued taking my son into the ER for the next 10 years when he is peeing blood and dehydrated . . . . So, he was all fixed up by expert surgeons and a robot and has remained symptom free since the end of May.
Maybe I am lucky-I feel lucky. Not so much because of my insurance. I take it for granted. But I am totally blessed in that I live in a place and time where his illness could be corrected and him home the day after a 7 hour surgery. I know that the US govt. funds a lot of the advancements that have happened in medicine. I am concerned that if they are paying for this 'reform' that advancements will no longer GET funded. I also know that one of the biggest issues in this country health care wise, is access. There are places that rarely have a doc w/in driving distance or that can't get a doc to serve in the areas that are filled with poverty. I think there may be better ways to solve the 'crisis' than what they have planned at this time. There definitely needs to be changes, but that new enormous beaurocracy is not going to fix what really ails us.
cameo-d

“We are God’s partners in matters of life and death,” Obama said, according to Moline (paging Sarah Palin…), quoting from the Rosh Hashanah prayer that says that in the holiday period, it is decided “who shall live and who shall die.”
http://www.infowars.com/obama-tells-rabbis-government-is-gods-partner-in-matters-of-life-and-death/
sammielee24

Amazing...do your own homework. I just sat through a Republican town hall meeting where a government representative stood and mislead people by ommitting pertinent facts about systemes in other countries in order to win votes against the reform. I've heard them all, every lie, every plant..every story - and if you choose to lap them up instead of really educating yourself about the issue, then that really is your choice.
By the way - I say education because if you think there is right wing media...then you really do not have a clue and it's not up to me to bring you up to par.
You might want to check out some of the companies that pulled ads from Glen Beck's show, you might want to check out a lot of information on Fox hosts who proudly assert themselves as conservatives/republicans...you just might want to.
And as for your more than stupid comment....yes, more than stupid...about the drugs Canadians use - we all get our drugs pretty well from the same companies so if they aren't controlled, do ya really think they are controlled here?? do ya??...Don't ya think that anyone sitting in front of a computer in the USA can just put an order in online and get drugs shipped in from any unknown country that maybe doesn't have any control??Don't ya? I don't think you have a clue but I'm sure if you're a Fox listener that you must love living in fear of your own government if you believe that tripe.
I don't have time to babysit .....all the data is there if you really want to find it. Lies and manipulation...believe what you will.
PS. I love reading this stuff to all my family so they can spread it around - this gives them a really up front and personal look at the thought process of Americans on all this stuff. sammieswife.
sammielee24

Jack Layton, NDP: July 30, 2009 05:31 PM

Defending Canada's Health Care: Truths and Lie

Last week a new study showed that 92% of Canadians would recommend their doctor to friends and family. Two-thirds have had their doctor for over five years and 85% of Canadians have a regular doctor.
Does that sound like the health care system depicted in the right-wing Republican-backed smear campaign against Canada?
No care for life-threatening conditions, no choice, exorbitant costs, bureaucrat control, poor outcomes -- these are the bogeymen of the right-wing smear campaign. And like all bogeymen, once you look under the bed they don't exist.
Our system does have flaws. We need better prescription drug coverage, better remote access to care and better practices in hospitals and clinics. No honest advocate for our health care system would dismiss these things. But Canadian health care works -- and works well.

If you face a medical emergency -- you get the help you need. An admitting nurse doesn't check your credit card -- she checks your pulse. Across Canada innovative best practices in hospitals and clinics are cutting wait times for emergency treatment and elective surgery alike.

Costs are under control in Canada. We spend similar amounts on public care - around 7% of GDP. For that price, Canada covers everyone, the U.S. just one third of the population. In case you're worried Canada wastes money on bureaucracy, know that just 2.4% of our total costs go to administration compared to 7% of what your government spends. In end, Canadian care costs $2,500 less per capita - and covers everyone.

Our outcomes are excellent too: infant mortality is lower, people live longer and we are less at risk of cardiovascular disease than Americans.

Does all this mean that the United States should adopt Canada's health care system?

No. America can no more adopt our health care system than we can swap hockey for baseball as our national pastime. A good health care system reflects a country's values, and each country's values are different.
But a system with 47 million uninsured, coverage denied due to pre-existing conditions and people thrown off plans when they become ill? That doesn't reflect American values.
Fixing the health care system won't be easy -- from Truman to Nixon to Clinton presidents have tried and failed. But it wasn't easy in Canada either.
Sixty years ago Canadians families shouldered their own medical bills. Those with the money got the care they needed, but those without struggled -- they sold their farms, mortgaged their homes, or went without care, suffered, and even died.
Tommy Douglas, one of my predecessors as leader of the New Democrats, believed everyone should get the health care they needed, regardless of income. So in 1947 Tommy and his supporters launched a decades-long battle for Canadian Medicare.
The forces of the status quo -- like those in America today -- fought back. Small and big business, patients and doctors groups -- at different times they all fought reform. Doctors even went on strike, leaving sick women, men and children without care. But by 1984 the Canada Health Act had secured a national public health care system that has become part of our identity. It's not a perfect system, but it works.
With health care reform in the U.S. closer to success than at any time in my life, our hopes are with you. Don't let right-wing lies about Canada help derail health care reform in America.

Hear It For Yourself

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