The bottom line for them it seems is to keep their superiors happy (i.e., the CO). So as long as people report time, it makes the elders look good. Do any elders actually care if it's real or not? I think many would show respect for others and not question their honesty. How could they prove it anyway? But then, there are plenty of arrogant ones out there who don't mind crossing lines... has it ever been an issue?
Do the elders really care if you fake your service time?
by JimmyPage 27 Replies latest jw friends
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yknot
My experience is Elders care a lot less then before......
I guess it all depends on the type of BOE (or indivdual elder), those who understand and play the game won't care unless you cause them to look bad while the remaining Ted Jaracz like devotees demand purity because they truly believe.
Sadly the less educated and poorer you are the more likely the demand for purity while those more affluent can palm their ways should a ruckus arrive over padded hours.
If anyone is going to pad their hours..... why not throw in a fake RV/Study or two! This way the Elders really won't wanna rock your boat!
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yknot
Personally I pad liberally (real FS only when CO visits) as do all the pioneers in my peer group.
I have been accused of padding but when I offered to reduce my hours or stop FS entirely (not to bring reproach, ya know) they decided to drop the discussion.
Of the older Elderettes about half have decided to pad a little more then just rounding up the hour too!
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NewYork44M
I remember helping the Secretary completing the month end report. We would go through names and hours and every once in a while he would make a comments doubting the time of some of the bros.
Fake time was never discussed any futher. There was no meetings with the individuals and it was never talked about at any elders' meetings.
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Amazing
When I was Secretary, I collected all the Time reports ... and yes we cared if the time was real ... sort of ... I recall that one "sister" routinely turned in 40 to 60 hours a month, and no one ever worked with her in Service or even saw her out in Service. We discussed her time reports in our Elder's meetings ... and decided to let it ride until we had proof to the contrary ... however, once in a while we would ask the "sister" what she was doing to get such good time in ... and she always had cool explanations like some "worldly" family member visited and they talked about the "Truth" until the wee hours of the morning for several days ... so, what could I say? She could have been a flaming apostate and running down the organization to her "family" but to her it was talking about the "Good News." So, I just recorded and reported to the Society.
But, for those less exotic JWs who reports 1 to 10 hours ... yes, they could easily fudge, and the Elders really did not care ... as long as we saw them show up to Service sometimes, we assumed the rest was spent "witnessing" to relatives and friends ... and because I started the idea of using a computer program to track reports by Book Study ... I was able to keep each BS Conductor updated each month as to the progress of Publishers in his group ... and this proved really helpful in squeezing hours out of the weak and forgetful ... just make a call and convince the "weak one" that he or she did do some witnessing that they forget about ...
It went something like this, "Well, Sister Weak, did you have 'worldly' family over this month? "Oh, yes Brother Secretary, I forgot, my brother and his wife, they are Catholics you know, they visited last week in fact ... and I placed that new Awake! with them." "Ahhhh ... you see Sister Weak, you are still regular in Service ... you just forgot ... so can we call it an even hour and 1 or 2 magazines placed?" "Well, Brother Secretary, they did stay two days, and I gave them three magazines and a Truth book. Oh yes, and he likes science and I also gave him the book on Life - How did it get here?" Wow, Sister Weak ... well with that kind of activity, 3 mags, two books, you had to have spent at least 2 or 3 hours talking about it ... " ... "Why yes, Brother Secretary, now that you mention it ... yes, let's say 3 hours for sure." Okay, you got it Sister Weak ... soon you will be an Aux. Pioneer, you just wait and see."
And, believe me, these kinds of conversations did take place each and every month with many weak JWs. We poked and prodded to see if they even "mentioned" the "Truth" to their children in passing and got them to call it a "family study." We took our congregation from 30% irregular and inactive up to 95% regular, 4% irregular, and only 1% inactive. We went from being the "Armpit" of the Circuit to a showcase congregation. The CO? He asked us how we did it ...and we just told it like it is, plus boasted about our shepherding calls, blah, blah, blah ... and presto, we were now the featured Elders on Circuit Assemblies and District Conventions. There was a side benefit in that some of the "weak" Jws did get enthused again, and started Aux and Reg Pioneering, and this lifted the "morale" and others increased their hours ... so, while there was some fudging on all sides, it did have its positive effects ... if you can call being a JW and going in Service a "positive" thing.
The whole system is like the King with No Cloths on - everyone is putting on a show - even the real Pioneers who put in the time - it's all a show ... a fake religion that gets fake results and lies to itself about how well it is doing in Jehovah's eyes.
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treadnh2o
As long as your not padding it too much, or getting more hours than the elders, they don't care.
The higher the congregation average, the better they look to the CO.
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purplesofa
One time the elder that took time went over my card with me and I pointed out that it was wrong.
and he just looked at me and I said doesn't it need to be right?
He gave me another look like NO, so I just shrugged my shoulders and said OK.
purps
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NewYork44M
Amazing, I saw this take place when I was fading. The elders were very concerned that I was not turning in time. Several approaced me and gave me all the tricks I could use to count time (i.e. talking to relatives, brief conversations with co workers and so on). I heard the same list you gave.
The subtext of the conversation was that they did not want me to be irregular. It didn't matter to them the validity of the time, just that there was time. Now, I am sure that if I report 40 hours they would question. However, if I reported 5 or 6, then everyone would be happy.
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SnakesInTheTower
I was accused of lying (aka being "double tongued") for my field report...I am sure I told this story elsewhere on this forum in the past.
Got JC'd and private reproof and removed as a regular pioneer and MS for it...
ironically, back then, I was actually deducting 10% of my overall time each month to account for long breaks, driving around, etc.
I made up for it from Jan-Aug 2007 as I was fading... I turned in phantom reports until I left for good in Sept 2007... why give them a reason to start a new Publisher Record Card on me?
And as a secretary years later, yes I think some faked time, others I think the CBSO's were turning in that fresh-sqeezed time in for publishers. I didn't care...that was between them and Jehober.
Snakes (Rich )
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treadnh2o
Snakes,
Were you inflating you time when they accused you?
I cannot believe this happened if you were actually getting pioneer hours (and deducting 10%)
If so, someone was after you.