Cannot understand without the organisation (page 2)

Perry

Just another way of saying the org = God........ so sad

NeonMadman

You Know says:

Certainly none of Ray Franz's troop of trained baboons has any speciall insights into the Scriptures.

This is a glowing example of the way that Jehovah's Witnesses are mentally bound to the concept of organizations. It is inconceivable to the average JW that someone could leave their organization without immediately going to some other organization. If there are "apostates," (by Watchtower definition only, not scripturally) then there must be an organization of apostates to which they belong. If a JW starts to ask the wrong kind of questions about "the truth," he is asked things like, "What other organization does the kind of work that we do?" and "What other organization has the abundant spiritual food that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy?"; or simply "Where else would you go?" (always avoiding the actual Biblical form of the question: "To whom would we go?")

YK, Ray Franz doesn't have a "troop". All he did was write a couple of books, revealing the Watchtower's dirty laundry that he was personally aware of. He didn't start any organization, contrary to the slander that has been spread about him by and among JW's. He doesn't have any power over the lives of others, and he doesn't have mindless followers. There isn't any organization of apostates out there, because people who leave the Watchtower go in any number of directions. It is only Jehovah's Witnesses who are hyper-organized to the point of mindless, slavish obedience to their organizational leaders, thus resembling a "troop of trained baboons." Except that the average baboon has more free will than the average JW.

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

JT

Just another way of saying the org = God........ so sad

------

so true-- when you consider to the avg jw the following phrases all carry the same weight it is truly sad;

Jehovah says:
the bible says:
The society says:
Jesus says:

they see no difference at all between them how sad indeed

You Know

YK, Ray Franz doesn't have a "troop".

Sure he does. But, perhaps "pack" would be a better word.

All he did was write a couple of books, revealing the Watchtower's dirty laundry that he was personally aware of.

Correct. And virtually every apostate has read his tell-all laundry list and parrots his criticisms like trained monkeys. Ray Franz has become a cult hero among Apostate Dubs and you are a liar if you deny that fact.

He doesn't have any power over the lives of others, and he doesn't have mindless followers.

LOL. Yeah, right. And you're not a madmen! LOL

There isn't any organization of apostates out there, because people who leave the Watchtower go in any number of directions.

An organization doesn't necessarily have to be strictly organized. Terrorist networks are not traditonally organized and strictly coordinated with each other and yet they have the common goal of destroying the nation state system and so they independently work toward that end. So it is that apostates are united in their hatred of the Watchtower and work together under the common goal of causing as much damage as they can even if it's only offering support and encouragment too each other. Thus it is that X-Dub atheists and born-again lunatics of various stripe have a common bond and do work together. There is obviously a close knit online community of apostate Dubs who are unquestionably bound together as disciples of Ray Franz. No one can deny that you spout his writings like mindless robots all the while imagining yourselves to be liberated. / You Know

Room 215

You (Don't Really) Know (Anything)...

Why does the WT and its apologists consider it impertinent when the non-JW public whose doors they pound relentlessly and to whom they throw down the gauntlet of ``test-examine-compare," insist that the Society's record be evaluated by some objective standard?

What is it in their record that merits the kind of unshakable confidence that they insist upon under pain of expulsion? I mean, when have they ever gotten anything right? In contrast with the immutable Word of God, what has been the average ``shelf life'' of any of their publications, including those written by their best and brightest?

Whatever their protestations to the contrary, it's clear to any objective observer of the movement that the average JW's highest loyalty is to a fallible human organization. Is that a healthy state of affairs? History suggests otherwise.

JT

YK
says:

"No one can deny that you spout his writings"

--------

Yk is actually correct about this point - only his context is wrong-

most of us quote ray's books because they merely CONFIRM what most of us for years wondered about-

do all of us a favor if you would-

-quote something from Rays' book that you feel personally is incorrect if you have read it-

thanks

James

Undecided

Hi YK,

Give one example of a quote from Ray Franz on this forum. Another one of your misconceptions, we don't need his quotes, the society provides plenty of their own to prove their false predictions and self righteousness. Your drivel is even worse than thiers. You are a lone wolf in your religious preceptions, sort of like Bibleman and an outcast of the society, if your thoughts were known by them. When are you going to wake up?

Ken P.

TR

YK,

It is evident that that is true.

Oh please do elaborate, I gotta hear this.

parrots his criticisms like trained monkeys.

I can't think of any people more qualified to do the above than the JW's.

TR

I'm gonna make mince meat outta that Osama!

ashitaka

I didn't know about Ray Franz until I left, You Know. I haven't read either of his books; I didn't even know about the shakeup in 1980 until I came here, two years after I left.

I looked right at the Society's publications to prove to myself that this was not the true religion. No apostate literature, etc. I think that's the only way a person could really leave because of doctrine. It was also a question of people.

Do you know no one ever calls my mother to see how she is? She was a Witness for fifteen years, and all during that time, she only had one friend, because she loved her children, and wouldn't allow people to abuse them. My abusive father was told he was in the right, no matter what, and those are the judgements of three different congregation's body of elders. Religious ego.

That's the legacy the WTBTS leaves with their followers who have good, strong minds and hearts. God doesn't want automotons, but the WTBTS does. They don't want people to make waves, even if they are in the right. They call it discrediting Jehovah, but it is really the WTBTS who is worried about their own name.

The GB are probably good men with good intentions, but this religion has played out poorly for many, many people. God should not be blamed for it, but the men who misrepresent him should.

ashi

You Know

UNDECIDEDLY:

Another one of your misconceptions, we don't need his quotes, the society provides plenty of their own to prove their false predictions and self righteousness

Apostates do not need to quote Ray Franz verbatim. You have as doctrine his issues and mindset. Even in your using the Watchtower's quotes against them is a method that you learned from Ray Franz. He even photo-copied internal documents and published them. And you are so stupid as to imagine that you are somehow unique in using the Socity's publications! That's truely pitiful. / You Know

Cannot understand without the organisation

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