Tower Of Babel (page 6)

Caedes

Surely the problem with the story of the tower of Babel is not the fact that differing languages have been around a lot longer than the bible. The problem is that god's wager with the devil is no longer valid if god cheated and interfered in human history?

Narkissos

Caedes,

Only the notion of "God's wager with the devil" (extrapolation to "human history" of a misunderstanding of the plot in Job's Prologue) is a problem with the WT, not with the Bible.

Caedes

Narkissos,

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your reply. I have heard christians (non JW) claim that god has a "wager" with the devil regarding humans and their inability to be govern themselves and this was the reason god allowed wickedness in the world. Unfortunately this was in conversation with a group preaching in a local town centre and they never identified which church they belong to and I neglected to ask, so I have no idea which brand of christians they were.

BurnTheShips

I have heard christians (non JW) claim that god has a "wager" with the devil regarding humans and their inability to be govern themselves and this was the reason god allowed wickedness in the world.

That is definitely a minority view. Very minority.

Damn Christians, why can't they all just agree so that there is a single target for the tiger to pounce?

BTS

Satanus

Do not many ambitious nonreligious people today have a similar attitude ascribed to nimrod in jasher? These people are and have built edifices many orders of magnitude greater than nimrods little pyrmid. Yet today, biblegod seems surprisingly undisturbed in his slumber, by all the cocauphany, of jackhammers, welders, blabbing politicians, speaching scientists, etc, etc. I would, at least, expect a huge project like the giant hadron collider in europe to get his attention. Atheistic men, working together, giving no recognition to god for creating the universe, these man are researching the very origins of the universe. Biblegod doesn't figure into their calculations. Surely, their attitudes far surpass that of nimrod, not to mention their project. Can you explain the inaction of your god, blugrass??!!

S

Satanus

Sorry about my spelling. Firefox refuses to correct it, anymore, and the text is so small, when i type it that i can't see it well enough to correct it, myself.

S

Caedes

Monty,

Perhaps you could point out where I claimed that all christians subscribed to this view? No, you can't, but then English comprehension has never been a strong point of yours has it? I neglected to point out that I was aware other christians don't all subscribe to the exact same beliefs because I would have thought it was glaringly obvious to all but the most obtuse. Obviously I failed to take account of just how obtuse some people can be.

Satanus

Part of the babel/nimrod story is that all language, except for the hebrew was changed. This, suggesting that hebrew was the original, god given tongue. However, leo's article shows that hebrew derived from other, preexisting languages.

S

Narkissos

Caedes,

I for one have never heard this (God's wager with the devil) interpretive pattern taught outside the WT, but sometimes catchy ideas like this seep through confessional borders in popular theology. And phenomenal 'theodiversity' is certainly higher in the English-speaking world anyway.

However, I was referring to the Bible, not pop theology. Nowhere afaik is the notion of a "wager with the devil" suggested as the explanation for sin, evil, God's patience or inaction in general. This is an extrapolation from the plot in Job's prose prologue, where actually "the satan" (a functional title, not a name) is not Yhwh's adversary, but Yhwh's servant in the role of prosecutor or witness for the prosecution against Job before the heavenly court, like in Zechariah 3 against Yeshua/Jesus the high priest. The difference with Zechariah is that the satan is allowed action, not just words, to make his point, and Yhwh himself argues for the defence rather than an angel. So we are moving toward the later view of Satan as THE enemy of God himself, but not quite there yet.

The Yhwh of the "J" Genesis stories, on the other hand, is not arguing or playing with any other mythological character, but with mankind itself. And he doesn't claim to be "fair" by any outward standard...

Caedes

Narkissos,

Thanks for the info, always useful to know where this sort of idea (pop theology - what a great term) comes from. If I see the same bunch of preachers I will find out what flavour of christian they are.

I do find it difficult to imagine that the JWs came up with this idea originally, presumably it has it's roots in other milleniallist(?) religions?

Tower Of Babel

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