Really, There Is A Lot To Learn About Your Faith

by AllTimeJeff 118 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  PSacramento

  Even within Jesus own apostles there were differences, most of the time they didn't even know what Jesus was telling them, along comes Paul years later and he is doing stuff that they didn't even know was suppose to be done and they had to get everyone together and discuss it.

  Change is inevitable, but as long as the core ( in this case faith) of something (in this case religion) remains the same, differences of opinion in regards to things can be worked out, or at least should be.

  While the faith that the majority of christian have is the same as it was 2000 years ago, the doctrines have changed, rules and restrictions were added, dogma was developed, divisions resulted, denominations were created, but in the end, the faith ( for the most part) has remained unchanged.
• 

  Mad Dawg

  If one were to read the Apostolic Fathers, he would see that the fundamentals of the faith are the same now as they were then. What is in question are peripheral issues.
• 

  PSacramento

  MD,

  And periphreals tend to change with the times, it just natural.

  The people who wrote the Gospels did it as second generation Christians, the apostles and 1st generation Christians were a tad busy not being eaten by lions, being persecuted, in jail, etc.

  Over the decades, more took to writing to combat the different POV's that were being preached and discussed over the decades after the death of the 1st Generation of apostles and disciples, that is why, for the most part we have basically 2 different view points - in a nutshell:

  The deity or non-deity of Christ and what is needed for salvation.

  Which is the correct one? that is left for US to decide for ourselves.
• 

  Perry

  The deity or non-deity of Christ and what is needed for salvation.

  Which is the correct one? that is left for US to decide for ourselves.

  With all due respect ....neither for Salvation. I was conducting a class recently in my Independent Fundamental Baptist church (Only God could be responsible for a 4 gen JW ending up here LOL) I made it a point to make the argument that the deity/non deity of Jesus was a non-issue for salvation. You should have seen the eyebrows and shock. This was tactical rather than essentially motivated ...so that long arguments with JW's could be avoided unless the Translation issue could be properly addressed...which most of the time there is neither time for nor the preparedness.

  My argument was that the requirement for Salvation and release from sin is exactly WHATEVER God says it is. At one time God said to place one's sin on an animal and then slit his throat. The animal certainly wasn't part of the essence of God, and so that feature was unnecessary. Likewise God now says to place faith on the crucified Lord Jesus Christ and a person's sin will be abolished. This is easy to understand, and again a deity pre-condition is unnecessary just as it was in the OT with animals. The life for a life principle is the same though.

  However, having said that I do think that an argument could be made that the sacrifice of Deity is necessary to be Born again with a "life-giving Spirit". But that is really a step 2 and is unnecceary for a distilled legal pronouncement of not guilty.

  At the end of anything is the word of God. For Christians, it is what He said that is needed for Salvation that matters, nothing more and nothing less. Why? It is because He is the offended party, the Object of Substitutional Punishment, as well as Judge and Mediator. Yes, he has all those roles in One.
• 

  PSacramento

  Perry,

  I agree that the deity of Christ is irrelevant for salvation, but it is an issue of importanc ein regards to his role and one can see how differences of opinion arose.

  Old Covenant = God is lord, saviour, reddemer and Judge

  New Covenant = Jesus is Lord, Saviour, redeemer and Judge

  Ergo Jesus must be God, ergo Jesus is divine, but wait, he is man also, or was, but wait, he is the son of God, not God, so is he still divine? yes, er No, let us argue that, Can anyone other than God forgive and judge? No, so Jesus must be God, Did Jesus say the Father is greater? yes, ergo jesus is Not God, see what I mean?

  While at its core the Christian belief for salvation is simple: Beliefe that Jesus is the Christ, the SOn of God, that he died and was ressurected and now sits at his father's side as our lord and savour, reddemer and Judge, in practice that view is complicated by trying to understand MORE about Jesus and God.
• 

  Perry

  in practice that view is complicated by trying to understand MORE about Jesus and God.

  I agree PS. But, it shouldn't be that way. Personally, I had to set the subject of Jesus' Diety aside before I could come to Christ. I just couldn't get anywhere reading the NIV, even if the doctrine was spelled out in the study notes. With my JW background, I wanted to read it for myself in scripture. Like here:

  1 Tim. 3: 16 - KJV
  
  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh ...
• 

  BurnTheShips

  The deity of Christ is at the center of Christianity. It is a core teaching. It is for this reason more than any other, that many of us consider the JWs to not actually be Christian.

  BTS
• 

  Perry

  BTS, of couse you are right. But, I see nothing wrong in setting that issue aside for later study, while a person accepts Jesus as his Savior first.

  I have noticed in witnessing to JW's that they can' t wait to get into a discussion about the Trinity. And of course the wording of the new bible versions makes this more challenging, especially the NWT. The conversation usually begins and ends gaining no ground at all, and more importantly without ever really sharing Christ.

  However, ask a JW to show you just one scripture explaining how his sins are forgiven outside of the New Covenant, and you'll eventually get the deer in the headlights look if you stay with it.

  This is a hole in WT theology so big that you can drive a truck through it.
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  PSacramento

  I have always seen the WT as more Old covenant than New covenant, they seem to have take a step back rather than forwards.