from jw yahoo group . . name dropping

by booby 19 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  booby

  I too have fond memories of Fred Franz. I served in Brooklyn Bethel from 1978 to 1987. Brother Franz would go to the 119 Columbia Heights sauna every Wednesday night. He had a small following of brothers, including me, who would also go on Wednesday nights to the sauna just to pick his brain. Brother Franz was a very humble brother but also a very intelligent Rhodes scholar, and a very astute Bible student. Well on these Wednesday nights a group of about 12 of us would pile into a small sauna. Once we all were seated, Brother Franz would say, "Alright brothers- who has the first question?" He knew we were there to ask him questions. One brother would venture a question and brother Franz would say, "So what research have you done?" Then he would ask the rest of us what we had to say about the question. And finally he would tell us what he knew about that subject. It was a very memorable experience to say the least!
  
  And Ray Franz, the apostate, is his nephew. I was there when his cronies were trying to disrupt the peace we had and were eventually disfellowshipped and removed from Bethel.

  creates visions in my brain that I don't want to have.
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  booby

  Funny how people will get an opinion and nothing can sway them. I used to work with some of them. I don't care how
  many texts I showed them that clearly pointed out the Jesus is the son and separate from the Father, they would always come
  back to their version of John 1:1 where they leave out the indefinite article "a". I would tell them "read verse 14, read verse 18".
  And still couldn't sway them. Another guy swore that because my Bible doesn't say the same as his in 1st John 5:7&8, then it's
  not the real Bible. Even though I found a book from HIS church that said that was added in 400 years after Jesus walked this
  earth. Go figure. (2 Cor 4:3&4)
  
  I thought this was interesting also. Notice the "funny how people will get an opinion and nothing can sway them" part
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  Uzzah

  While I was at Bethel I had heard of thes sauna discussions. I had an opportunity to chat with Fred Franz on a couple of occasions (non-sauna)and enjoyed the intelectual excahnge. One of the things we discussed was the generation understanding which led me to help write the 1995 Watchtower article about the change in belief about "this generation".

  Fred had a bit of an ego but was a bible student. This current GB is all about Organizational structure but less about being students of the bible. Franz was really one of the last actual students of scripture within the GB
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  jamiebowers

  Brother Franz was a very humble brother but also a very intelligent Rhodes scholar, and a very astute Bible student.

  From what I've read, Fred WAS NOT a "Rhodes scholar".
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  Uzzah

  I can't vouch for his being a Rhodes scholar but he was very well read. He had a good brain about hin but was pre-disposed to a certain belief.
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  alanv

  Booby, you talk about Ray Franz as being an apostate but can you list some of the imortant things that he got wrong in his book Crisis of conscience.

  Fred like Rutherford before him made a complete ass of himself. Much of what he wrote has now gone on the scrapheap. He was the main instigater of the 1975 fiasco that caused so many brothers to give up everything for an imaginery date.
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  Witness 007

  Fred Franz in the Sauna 1972 "Yes, Brother Armagedon will be here be here by 1975 according to God's Chronology..."

  Fred Franz in the Sauna 1976 "Well Brother, ummm arrrr we don't know how long it took to create Eve....arrrr....could be out afew years...ummm....Jehovah didn't make a mistake, it was your expactations that were wrong."

  Fred Franz Intelligent? He was just another False Prophet Di#khead who made Jehovah look like an ass and 1 Million Brothers left "the truth" between 1975 - 1981. Good job you Old geezer.
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  booby

  sorry alanv. this is a cut and paste from a yahoo group, not my thoughts . My comment, not clearly shown, was about the vision I didn't want in my head about guys crammed in a small sauna. Rays book is very inlightening and what makes it even more so is the lack of malice. He is totally believable in all that he says. Same for my second post, another cut and paste from that group. In that post we see the way their brain works. Thet can't see that it is exactly the way they are. What I have read about fred franz is not that he was just "smart" but also somewhat looney. Like in the asent minded professor, totally absorbed in his own mind and thinking. Very much an accentric.
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  Trevor Scott

  It has been established that Fred Franz was never offered a Rhodes Scholarship.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uic2HAbabM8
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  JWoods

  I have it on some pretty good authority that one of the main subjects with the sauna-boys was Freddies dissatisfaction with the notion of the Governing Body and it's semi-democratic vote on docrinal and administrative issues.