It is probably not really surprising, but many older JWs contine to parrot the old line about 1914 and "this generation shall not pass away", despite the significant recent modifications of this doctrine in the watchtower. I don't know what this revealing discrepancy is about; probably a mixture of doctrinal apathy and knee-jerkism (e.g., telling people that the generation that witnessed events in 1914 would still be here at Armageddon is easier to say and potentially more motivating).
1914: Jehovah's Witnesses Proudly Proclaim when Jesus became King
by JWMediaFilms 28 Replies latest jw friends
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AnnOMaly
So the society teaches that the great tribulation started in 1914? New one to me.
They used to - a long long time ago - until New Light ™ in 1970.
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Deputy Dog
AnnO
I guess my question would be, even if they have changed that teaching, how would a sign appear and then disappear with "new light"?
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AGuest
may you have peace! As I understand it from my Lord, yes, as is the Book of Jashar (Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18) and others, although some of the language transliterations and meaning interpretations are inaccurate (Jeremiah 8:8) because earthling man (i.e., scribes, whose works my Lord condemned along wit that of the Pharisees) has relied on his own understanding... rather than upon guidance and direction by the Holy Spirit to put these... and all other scripture... into modern language(s). The word of my Lord to me is "All things I will tell you are written, but not all things written are what I will tell you."
Again, I bid you peace!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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AGuest
May you have peace! Yes, I understand that they changed their "current" teaching on this issue. They had to, didn't they, to explain the INCREASE in memorial partakers? Think, however, of how many years, and as a result how many spiritual lives have been "lost" during the time, they did teach that the "door" was closed! Who were they to say such a thing? By doing so... and by the still present skeptical and unkindly treatment of those who DO "enter" by partaking these days... and/or the various "rules" they place upon those who wish to do so (i.e., such ones will have rendered many years of service, such ones will likely be up in years, such ones are replacements, etc.) they "shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men." They are absolutely no different from the scribes and Pharisees who did the same before them. In this and many other things. Matthew 23:13, 29-31
There is no criteria... other than faith. To teach that one would have "put in many years of service," totally undermines the fact that the choosing is due to UNdeserved kindness - there is NOTHING one can "do" to "deserve" the calling and saying that many years of service would have been conducted means that the choosing is given as a REWARD for "work" and thus DEserved. That is a LIE.
As regards the age issue, c'mon - name ONE servant of God... ONE... that was called and chosen as an older adult. The TRUTH is that every single one of those we know about (i.e., in the Bible) that were called as a prophets or an apostle were either chosen and/or called as infants (i.e., under age 10), or prior to age 30. Including my Lord, himself.
As for them being "replacements," c'mon - the chosen don't fall away so easily. It is a [very] rare event. They say this because they stick to their other false teaching, that only the 144,000 are "anointed." That... is a LIE. Both the 144,000 AND the Great Crowd are anointed with holy spirit. They become ONE flock, with ONE God and ONE hope and ONE baptism... and ONE law. That is why the Great Crowd are ALSO seen "before the throne" and "rendering SACRED service"... which only PRIESTS can do... "in God's temple. The 144,000 are chosen "from among the sons of Israel." The Great Crowd is bought "from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people"... to be a "nation of kings and priests" WITH Abraham's seed... the 144,000. Revelation 5:9, 10
They're imposters. Matthew 24:24
I bid you peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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AnnOMaly
I guess my question would be, even if they have changed that teaching, how would a sign appear and then disappear with "new light"?
Ha! Got me!
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blondie
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w70 1/15 pp. 52-53 pars. 9-14 Peace with God amid the "Great Tribulation"***
On account of his "chosen ones" he cuts short the days. How? Back in the year 1925 the suggestion was set out in the leading article of the WatchTower issue of May 1, entitled "For the Elect’s Sake," that "those days" of the "great tribulation" were cut short in the middle. The explanation was given that the "great tribulation" had begun in 1914 C.E. and that it was not allowed to run its full course then but God stopped World War I in November of 1918. From then on God was allowing an interval for the activity of his anointed remnant of elect Christians before he let the final part of the "great tribulation" resume at the battle of Armageddon and come to its termination. This would allow for sheeplike persons to be saved.—Matt. 25:31-46.
This explanation sounded good and reasonable back there in 1925, just seven years after World War I and fourteen years before the unexpected World War II, a conflict four times as bad as World War I. But even World War II did not merge into the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" at Armageddon, as some had expected it to do. (Rev. 16:14-16) Here we are, twenty-four years after World War II closed in 1945 and a portion of the anointed remnant of elect ones are still here and the war at Armageddon is still ahead, although getting very close now. Back in 1925 the Bible timetable as set out in the book "TheTimeIsatHand," published in the year 1889, was still thought to be correct.Hence it was not calculated that six thousand years of man’s life on earth were yet to end during the 1970’s. Of course, the old timetable for scheduling the events of the Bible and fulfillment of prophecies affected the understanding of matters by the International Bible Students. But now chronology has been reexamined.
If, as explained in 1925, the first part of the "great tribulation" began in 1914 and ended in 1918, then the time interval by which "those days" of the tribulation are being cut short has extended itself for fifty-one years and is not yet over. Many of the anointed remnant that witnessed the end of World War I in November of 1918 and others that have been added to the remnant since then have grown old, and some have been killed in persecution or died of old age or other causes. For example, in the year 1948, out of 376,393 that celebrated the Lord’s Supper, only 25,395 partook of the bread and wine to testify that they were of that anointed remnant. But on April 1 of the year 1969, out of 2,719,860 that celebrated, only 10,368 partook of the bread and wine. This included quite a number of the remnant who experienced the "beginning of pangs of distress" during World War I. A number of these should survive still longer to see and go through the war of Armageddon, in harmony with Jesus’ words, at Matthew 24:33-35:
"When you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away [unfulfilled]."
Were the suggestion made in 1925 true as to cutting short the days of the "great tribulation" in the middle, "for the elect’s sake" (Matt. 24:22, AV), what then? Then the time interval between the opening part of the "great tribulation" and the closing Armageddon part thereof will prove to be around five times as long as the length of the "great tribulation" itself. However, in order to correspond with the events of the first century, from the time of Jesus’ departure by ascending to heaven in 33 C.E. to Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 C.E., the antitypical "great tribulation" did not begin in 1914 C.E. Rather, what took place upon Jerusalem’s modern antitype in 1914-1918 was merely "a beginning of pangs of distress" for her and her political allies. The "great tribulation" such as will not occur again is yet ahead, for it means the destruction of the world empire of false religion (including Christendom) followed by the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" at Armageddon against the political allies of Babylonish false religion. In that "great tribulation" the present system of things must end in its religious and political phases.
It is this coming "great tribulation" that must have its days "cut short" [Greek, kolobo´o], curtailed, lopped off at the extremity, not split in the middle. This is done on account of God’s "chosen ones" and in order that ‘some flesh’ may be saved. (Matt. 24:21, 22) God has a fixed "day and hour" for the start of that "great tribulation," without any delay. (Matt. 24:36) On account of having by that "day and hour" all the remnant of his "chosen ones" safely outside of the antitypical unfaithful Jerusalem and outside of its associated secular system of things, God can then make it a swift work in executing divine vengeance and destruction upon this entire wicked system of things. As in the case of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E., the number of days of this coming "great tribulation" can be "cut short," there being no need for prolonging them. This will permit also of the saving of ‘some flesh’ alive through the "great tribulation," since ordinarily frail human "flesh" would, without divine protection, be unable to endure the lengthening too long of this "great tribulation" that will be the worst in all human history.
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PSacramento
AGuest,
Thanks for you views :)
RE: the age of those chosen,
how old were the apostles? who old was Paul. I know that John the Baptist was just a few months older than Jesus, but not sure there is an age limit for being chosen by God for his work, Imean Jesus was the son of God, he was "Born "chosen".
Noah was chosen and he was old, as was Abraham, not sure what age has to do with it.
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AGuest
May you have peace!
The apostles, including Paul, were all “young” men (i.e., less than age 30) as opposed to “older” men (at lest age 30 and then up from there). Psalm 110:1-3; Joel 2:28; Acts 7:58. Moses was an infant when he was chosen to be hidden in the Nile for JAH’s future purpose for Israel. Exodus 2:1-3. Noah was chosen at birth. Genesis 5:29. John the Baptist, Jeremiah, and Cyrus were all chosen before they were born. Isaiah 45:1; Jeremiah 1:5; Luke 1:15. Samuel was a very young boy. 1 Samuel 3:1-14. Daniel was also a boy, as were his companions; as was Jospeh. Daniel 1:8-10; Genesis 37:2, 8. And although God make His promise regarding Canaan directly to Abraham when Abraham was 75, He called Abraham (Abram) out of Ur to Canaan (through Terah) before Abraham took a wife, which would also make him a young man. Genesis 11:29-31.
My point is that for years the WTBTS taught that only those who were of a “mature” age in 1914 could be “of the anointed.” True, they have systematically changed that from time to time as we have gotten further and further from 1914 (from those being born before and at a mature age IN 1914, to being of “an age of understanding” in 1914, to be born in 1914, to, well… I don’t know what it is now). They pushed this false teaching through illustrations and articles which virtually always showed elderly, white/very gray haired “anointed,” as well as the false teaching (which I believe they still push) that if someone does partake they are a “replacement” for someone who had "fallen away" and that to be legit one would have had to put in many years of service. That is a treacherous LIE, with absolutely NO basis, and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who calls such ones.
They could have avoided this treachery, however, had they only listened to the Holy Spirit. He would have told them that God shows mercy to whomever He wishes and that there is NO limit WHATSOEVER, as to age, gender, ethnicity, race, class, etc., that precludes one from being chosen. Failing that, they should have at least read their Bibles (unbelievers that they are), as regards the ages of those I mentioned above and particularly Matthew 19:13-15 and its backup at Acts 2:39, which would have told them that even children are chosen. It would also have told them that ones are called FIRST... THEN sent to "work" because it is due to UNdeserved kindness. Because they did neither, however, millions now dead… children and adults… actually may not live again. And they (and, unfortunately, those who are still “in her” and so still “share in her sins”) will be responsible for these because they “shut up the kingdom of the heavens” before such ones. Matthew 23:13
Bottom line, they have gone around teaching, for decades, that one can be resurrected to life AND live forever… WITHOUT eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ… based on such ones “having life within themselves.” This is a LIE, and I refer to the words of my Lord recorded at John 6:48-55 and5:26, 27 to prove it:
“I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that ANYONE may eat of it… AND NOT DIE. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if ANYONE eats of this bread he will LIVE FOREVER; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh… in behalf of the life… OF THE WORLD.”
and
“[A]ccordingly JAHESHUA said to them: ‘Most truly I say to you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man AND drink his blood… YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOURSELVES. He that feeds on MY flesh and drinks MY blood HAS EVERLASTING LIFE… AND… I SHALL RESURRECT HIM at the last day; for my flesh is TRUE food and my blood is TRUE drink.”
and
“For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.”
They are habitual liars, however, as most everything they teach is a lie. Which means they are servants NOT of God and Christ, but of our Adversary, Satan the Devil. They are a "daughter" of Babylon the Great, by means of her liaison with the "kings of the earth." As a result, they are choosing Satan as their "father," b ecause it is HIS purpose they are serving. Matthew 24:24; Revelation 12:17. And i n this particular thing they are the worse of the other “daughters” of Babylon the Great because at least the other daughters (religion) do not stop their followers from eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ. True, the others blaspheme against the Son, mistreat and defraud the sheep, and teach that they have “higher” positions in heaven based on their status in this world… but they at least let the sheep come to the “fountain of water of life,” Christ, and drink.
May the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, have mercy upon them all, however, for I can’t believe they know what they are doing. I certainly didn’t when I was among them. And if the scribes, Pharisees, temple priests and Jews of my Lord’s day didn’t know what they were doing, and they literally had him put to death, then I can hope that these, too, truly don’t know their actions. May JAH forgive them.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA