Excommunication. JW's don't call it that.
FHN ....
Yes, that is not the current term.
I believe the accepted term now is Spiritual Castration.
Rub a Dub
Did I commit the unforgivable sin?
by AlexHall 49 Replies latest jw experiences
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RubaDub
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AGuest
May you have peace! You wrote:
"’Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’ is mentioned by name only in the first three Gospels Matthew 12:31 Mark 3:29 Luke 12:10,” and “The sins committed are the same in the first two accounts, that is crediting the work of the Holy Spirit to Beelzebub or Satan, agreed.”
Although the word “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is only mentioned in those verses, ACTS of such blasphemy are shown in the verses I presented, particularly Acts 5:3. Moses even committed such blasphemy, which is why he was precluded from entering into the promised land; however, at that time such blasphemy was not “eternal,” so he was still transformed into the heavens. It was not until my Lord stated what was “unforgivable” that it became such. That is why he asked the Pharisees who would save them from Gehenna (everlasting destruction in the Lake of Fire).
Also, the sins in the first two accounts are not quite the same: in the first (Job), the sin was crediting God with something Satan was responsible for. In the second, it was crediting Satan (Beelzebub, which name means “Ruler of the Unclean Flying Things”… which is how someone came up with “Lord of the Flies”) with something the Holy Spirit was responsible for. Not quite the same thing, but very similar.
You also wrote:
The sin of the third Gospel is slightly, "speaking a word against" is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. “And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.” There are other sins against the Holy Spirit such as lying, quenching or taking undue credit for the work of the Holy Spirit but there is no suggestion that these constitute "blasphemy against" and are unpardonable sins.
I understand how you come to this conclusion; however, this is only one example of such blasphemy. For example, it was my Lord who was “spoken against” at Mark 3:22, as there the scribes were saying the HE had Beelzebub and HE was expelling demons by such means. They were saying that HE had “an unclean spirit.” Yet, His words cautioned them that what they were TRULY in danger of doing was speaking against the Holy Spirit… and calling that Spirit "unclean." That is blasphemy against that Spirit. Also, Ananias and his wife, Sapphira, were not only confronted by Peter, but exposed as to whom they were really obeying and who they had sinned against by doing so.
Indeed, Simon in Acts 8 is told to "repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you" so the sin is obviously pardonable. Interesting how Simon misses the point and asks someone else to pray for him rather than praying himself! “Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me."
I think you may have misunderstood Peter here. He is recorded to have said:
"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee."
Or something like that. But Peter was not indicating that Simon WOULD be forgiven, or even could. Rather, he was impressing upon Simon the DEEP seriousness of what he had done: “Omigawd, no you didn’t!! You should fall down on your knees right here and now and ask God to forgive you... and HOPE he will... ‘cause you really just blew it big time!!” He said what all who belong to the Body of Christ should say. Why? Because WE are obligated to show mercy… to whomever, for whatever. We are not God, therefore, we cannot condemn anyone, nor indicate to anyone that they have been eternally damned. That is not our job. (And no, Peter did not do that with Ananias/Sapphira - he only told them what the Holy Spirit had revealed to him). While we can bring such blasphemy to someone’s attention, it is not up to us as to what the actual outcome will be. That would be presumptuous on our part. We can suggest to one that, well, “you most likely did commit the unforgivable, but I am going to pray for you because God is merciful. Perhaps He WILL show you mercy.” WE are supposed to HOPE that ALL sins are forgivable, as we want all of OUR sins to be forgiven. It is only our Lord and our Father who can say that it is not. If you look closely at Peter’s words, however, he understood the graveness of what Simon had tried to do, and he pulled no punches about that.
“… my own feeling is that "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" can also constitute mocking (as opposed to quenching or discrediting i.e. call false, not unholy) the work of the Holy Spirit although I have no "proof text" for this.”
It can (because with whom does such mocking originate??), and you don’t need proof text for this. ANYTHING “against” the Holy Spirit… is a blasphemy, and thus a sin… against the Holy Spirit. That TRUTH should be written on our hearts, not on paper in delible ink.
Have a look on YouTube and you will see mockers of the Holy Spirit a plenty, that is for sure.
Nahhh, no need, thanks. First, because my very old computer doesn't really support YouTube and stuff like that (praise JAH! It's not like I have a whole lot of time on my hands!) Second, and most importantly, m y position is why give such folks any more of my time, and thus glory, than I do, say, the WTBTS? None of these have anything of value to offer me. I mean, there are blasphemers of such ilk everywhere, including here. Yet, my Lord has not sent me to them. My specific “territory” is the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with them... here and elsewhere. So, let these others have their day – they really should be of no great concern to us… unless they come to us – in which case, we may need to defend our faith… or expose their works to God’s Household. But we are not their judge or jury and so to their own master they will stand… and with him they will eventually fall. I would much rather spend my time with folks who build up… and glorify God and Christ/the Holy Spirit… than with those who tear down… out of their own anger and hatred… and lack of… well, whatever it is they’re lacking.
In the meantime, may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name is JAH of Armies, and love and peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, be upon you… and your entire household, if you so wish it.
I am your servant, and a slave of Christ
SA
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AGuest
May you have peace!
do those people that blame God for bad things that happen to them, that say that God is punishing them, are they blaspheming the HS? And if so, are they committing a mortal sin?
Because this is such a serious topic, I did not want to lean on my own understanding, at all, and so I had to ask my Lord for understanding and knowledge in this respect, and here is what I received from the Holy Spirit:
Not necessarily. With God, almost everything comes down to intent and motive. If, for example, someone does not KNOW God, because they do not know Christ (the express image of the person of God), and thus does not know that the Most Holy One of Israel is (1) merciful, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness, (2) righteous, and so would NEVER punish the innocent, (3) NOT the "ruler of this world" or the "god of this system of things", and (4) does not try us with evil (James 1:13)... the error could be forgiven. This is what happened with Job - although He knew God to be loving, merciful, and righteous, he erroneously concluded that God WAS the ruler of this world and so COULD try us with evil. He was wrong, and acknowledged that (Job 42:3)... after he was corrected by the Most Holy One of Israel, Himself.
If, however, such one DOES know this... because such one has seen God MANIFEST... for example, as did the scribes and Pharisees, through literally seeing the Christ AND his works... and as did Ananias and Sapphira, through having received holy spirit... then such sin is most likely "eternal" (vs. "mortal"... which all sin is. Note, "mortal" indicates the limitation of life of physical flesh - flesh with its blood, hemoglobin - such flesh dies. Flesh with GOD's blood, holy spirit, however, is "immortal," meaning it lacks death IN it. That is the SPIRIT body. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit not only results in death of the physical body, flesh with its blood... but destruction of the SPIRIT AND THE SPIRIT BODY, which must be done by [heavenly] fire... and is eternal. Matthew 10:28; 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 Death of the flesh is not eternal - the flesh can be resurrected. Destruction of spirit... and the spirit body... cannot be undone).
One barrier to understanding this fully is that the fulfillment is not immediate. For example, although the person may die in the flesh right then and there - as with Ananias and Sapphira - or may not die in the flesh for some years, as with many others - they are not yet eternally dead. Unlike the false teaching of the WTBTS and others... there is going to be a resurrection "of the righteous... AND the unrighteous." The righteous... "to life"... the unrighteous... "to judgment," which judgment will almost virtually end in permanent destruction. This means, contrary to the false teaching of the WTBTS, that even Adam and Eve will be resurrected. They have to be... in order to face their judgment which has not occurred yet (unless God has mercifully deigned to grant them life by means of their faith in His Christ, if such existed, in which case they will be resurrected to life by Christ - John 6:54). No one has been judged, yet, except Satan, the “ruler of this world.”
Bottom line: it depends… on the blamer’s heart, intent, and motive. If the statement is made in ignorance, the Most Holy One of Israel may overlook it. It is up to Him. If, however, it is made in full knowledge of the “works” of the Holy Spirit vs. the “works” of the Devil and/or his “children,” then it will not be forgiven. The Pharisees KNEW that Satan could not/would not do the works they saw the Christ doing. By means of the works of the Prophets, they KNEW such things could ONLY come from God. Yet, out of their jealousy, anger, and hatred for him, they blasphemously accused my Lord of using the power of Satan to do such works. Such CANNOT be… and, as self-ordained "leaders" of God's people Israel, and thus stewards of the Law and thus educated as to the works Prophets... they knew it.
I, SA, have shared it with you just as I received it from my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and the Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. I hope this helps you and any others who might wish to know... and I wish you the greatest of love and peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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amiworldlnow
My dear friend David committed adultry, and Solomn was a pimp, Jehovah forgave them. It's not Jehovah that doesn't forgive it's the Organization, even they say he is ready to forgive. "The unforgiveable sin" There was a Wt on this very thng some years back, the advice give was to still come to the mettings. If it's such a thing, why come to the meetings.
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mouthy
My understanding is > If you ask the LORD Jesus into your life,to be your LORD & Saviour
Your one of his.... He Forgives ALL ! Your Born Again....The Unforgivable sin??? ( In MY Opinion)
is rejecting the Holy Spirit,which is the Teacher
your Conscience is a gift from God. It guides us ,( If we have invited the Holy Spirit INTO your life.I have & can say...Since that day Oct 20th 1989..I Have felt the peace that was promised,
Not as the world gives but as God gives, Yes I get "rough" days because we was warned in the world
we would ,But He has never left me or forsaken me in all the 82 years I have been alive & I committed
many ,many sins, before He found ME, after the WT kicked me out... -
Spook
I deny the holy spirit.
There, just a reminder.
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Farkel
:Did I commit the unforgivable sin?
Yes, you did. Feel better now? Now that you've got that crap problem out of your life, go enjoy it and live it to the fullest. You have no other choice now, you lucky devil!
Farkel
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jam
My understanding and correct me if I am wrong, this may have been stated already, but that kind
of unpardonable sin spoken of in Act5;1-10 cannot be duplicated today, accusation against Jesus.
The only unpardonable today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for A person who
dies in unbelief John 3;16and in john 14;6 to reject the only means of salvation..Do I believe this ,
well I am no longer a believer..
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The Finger
"The sins committed are the same in the first two accounts, that is crediting the work of the Holy Spirit to Beelzebub or Satan, agreed."
I woke at spot on the witching hour the other nite and felt I had sinned against the Holy Spirit. So much that I got out of bed and reviewed my posts on this site.
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clarity
The watchtower loves the unforgiveable sin. Gives them one more thing to hang over the head of the masses. Don't believe in the governing body?..... omg watchout you're gonna get it! They are counting on you not being able to figure it out! Here's a some ammunition for you:
Mark comments "because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'" (Mark 3:29-30). This shows that the sin in question is related to saying that Jesus has an unclean spirit. The people in question had seen the miraculous works of Jesus with their own eyes. Any reasonable person would have concluded that God had to be working through Jesus. Nicodemus, one of the religious leaders of Israel, affirmed that very point in John 3:2, "No one can do these signs that You do unless God is with Him." The evidence was unmistakable. This suggests that to commit the blasphemy against the Spirit a person must do four things:
1) be aware of the miraculous works of Jesus,
2) consciously reject the logical conclusion that those works are from God,
3) believe those works are actually from the devil, and
4) tell others that Jesus' works are from the devil.
There is no clear indication by the Lord Jesus in any of the passages that anyone in His day had already committed this sin which would never be forgiven. Jesus didn't say, "You are eternally condemned because you have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit."
Jesus may well have been giving a warning and not a pronouncement of sentence. It is quite possible, therefore, that this sin is not a one-time act. Jesus could be referring to those who reject him their entire lives and die in unbelief.
Wessel comments,
"Surely what Jesus is speaking of here [Mark 3:22-30] is not an isolated act but a settled condition of the soul-the result of a long history of repeated and willful acts of sin through hardness of heart (cf. 3:5)" (NIV Bible Commentary, Mark, p. 151).
Jesus is talking about a specific type of sin, saying that He did His works under the power of the devil and not the power of the Holy Spirit. It must be admitted that it is possible that the unpardoned sin is a one-time act. After all, for a person to see the works of Jesus and have the audacity to say that these miraculous works are the works of the devil suggests a hardness of heart of amazing proportions. Is it not possible that Jesus is saying that a person can become so hardened of heart that he or she will never come to faith and be forgiven? He would not be warning against saying some magical incantation that guarantees damnation. Rather, He would be warning against so hardening one's heart against Jesus that he or she crosses the point of no return.
C) CAN THIS SIN BE COMMITTED TODAY?
The fact that this sin is not mentioned in the NT epistles might suggest that it couldn't have been committed after Jesus left the earth. Maybe a person had to actually see His miracles and then attribute them to Satan to commit this sin. Of course, this can't be proved. This is merely a possible conclusion. I am inclined to the view that the unpardoned sin is cosmic unbelief, calculated wholehearted rejection of Jesus and His message, culminating in a vitriolic declaration that Jesus is from the devil. I don't know whether this sin only occurs over the course of a life or if it could be committed at a point in time.
D) CAN CHRISTIANS COMMIT THIS SIN?
1) ANSWER: NO BECAUSE THE CHRISTIAN'S SALVATION IS BASED SOLELY ON THE WORK OF CHRIST ALONE
Finally a question we can answer with absolute certainty! The answer is No. No Christian can commit a sin for which there will never be forgiveness. Other Scriptures make this crystal clear.
a) [Compare Jn 5:24]:
"[Jesus said], 'Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life' "]
If a believer ever came into the judgment of eternal condemnation, Jesus would be proved a liar. Of course, He never lies. Thus no.
c