Proof texts that Jesus was, and is, God. Any ideas?

by jonathan dough 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Someone does protest too much...

    There is nothing wrong with the view "live and let live", if one truly believes in God then they tend to see the God that they need to believe in at any particular time in their life and those that don't believe in God, don't believe in God. Most people that don't believe in God don't care that other do, unless of course their life is somehow disrupted by them, which is NEVER the case in an internet forum.

    There really isn't any reason to be beligerant if you don't believe in God and someone else does, or vice-versa.

  • designs
    designs

    PS, what I've seen happen to some Witnesses as they try to reestablish their lives is to get out of one cult only to walk into another cult like the Fundamentalists. These groups dangle the shiny beads of community and friendship to lure vulnerable people in. Religions that portray the Supreme Being as cruel, whether Trinitarian or Muslim or others, have had a negative effect on humanity.

    We see the weakness and flaws in the Society and expose it. The same critera needs to be applied to these other Cults if we truly care about people's well being.i

    Do good, it is simple.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    designs

    Religions that portray the Supreme Being as cruel...

    How is justice cruel?

  • designs
    designs

    DD think your belief in the Trinity and Hell through thoroughly. You'll get it, you are only a couple of connections away from putting the pieces together.

    Do good,it is simple.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    designs,

    Because a number of believers in the Trinity are ALSO believers in Hell it doesn't follow that these doctrines are logically connected. They aren't imo. If they are, as you have asserted countless times, please explain why and/or how.

    The doctrine of Hell emerged in monotheistic second-temple Judaism rather independently from angelologic developments which provided the background for the heavenly "Son of God" figure; it was shared by pre- and anti-Trinitarian Christians, both of the Jewish-Christian and later Arian kinds; it was adopted by Islamic monotheism which opposed the Trinity concept right from the start.

    Otoh the Trinity concept in more or less developed forms was perfectly compatible with views of universal salvation opposing the concept of everlasting torment like the doctrine of apokatastasis in Origen and Gregory of Nyssa; it is still the case with all kinds of universalist theologians; a number of modern doctrines also combine Trinitarianism with "annihilationist" views, like Seventh-Day Adventism or even a few Evangelicals like John Stott.

    And please don't evade this question of the relationship between two DOCTRINES by moving to a "theory vs. practice" argument. If such a dilemma is valid it applies to ALL doctrines, not just the ones you happen to dislike...

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    designs

    DD think your belief in the Trinity and Hell through thoroughly. You'll get it, you are only a couple of connections away from putting the pieces together.

    I see, and I get it. You want to avoid the answer.

    Why do you want to avoid justice?

  • designs
    designs

    Narkissos, Judaism did develop ideas of conscious punishment, but as most Orthodox Rabbis will tell you it was a developed idea not rooted in the primitive beliefs. Some contemporay branches of Judaism hold that God keeps a person in some conscious state for up to a year and is then released to some paradise. source- The Book Of Jewish Knowledge by Ausubel.

    Torture, conscious punishment on the part of a Supreme Being toward humans is degrading and petty.

    People that believe in such foolishness reduce the Supreme Being to a bully of the worse sort. I hope you have not drunk that Kool Aid.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    I've spent the last 19 years of my life watching for people that want to avoid justice. Almost every one of them that get caught, deny its fairness.

  • designs
    designs

    DD, I know you have this jones for seeing God punish people in the afterlife. Think it through and do good every day.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    designs,

    You avoided my question: how is Hell (as shared by a section of Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc.) LOGICALLY connected with the Trinity (as shared by a historically dominant section of Christianity)?

    Btw, "paradise" (as a post-mortem state) and resurrection is not anymore "rooted in the primitive beliefs" of Judaism than Hell (Gehenna, etc.).

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