Imo this interpretation shares one common misunderstanding with the WT's, namely that the question "Who is the FDS..." can be "objectively" answered. It misreads a moral parable as a prophetic allegory. Read as a parable, the text does not foretell that there will be a faithful and discreet slave, neither individual nor "class," anymore than it foretells that there will be an "evil slave". Both slaves are moral types of two opposite behaviours and consequences (in the classic "two-ways" manner, cf. 7:13f). They do not exist outside of the parable. This is a warning to the target audience (probably Christian leaders/teachers who have been similarly "appointed" over their brothers) that they can behave either like the "faithful and discreet slave" (by "feeding" their brothers) or like the "evil slave" (by serving their own interests and "beating" their brothers). Only the Masters' return will show who behaved like the "faithful slave" and who behaved like the "evil slave," with appropriate reward or punishment. By affirming that the Master has already returned, the WT misses the point of the parable and transforms a question about the way any authority in the Christian church is exercised into an unconditional validation of their authority (in "blank cheque" manner).
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave? (A perspective)
by StoneWall 31 Replies latest watchtower bible
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StoneWall
passwordprotected
while I agree with some of what you typed you must remember that christ was referred to as a slave in
Philip.2:7 "No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men."
There is many other scriptures that refer to Jesus being likened to a slave.
I can point them out if need be, but from reading your past post's over the last few months I'm sure you know them
from reading the bible.
Even the one in John 13:16 "Most truly I say to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent
forth greater than the one that sent him."
Then compare that with John 13:20 "Most truly I say to YOU, He that receives anyone I send receives me [also].
In turn he that receives me, receives [also] him that sent me.” (So who sent Jesus? It was the Father so in this sense
Jesus was the slave since he was sent forth)
Matt.20:26-28 "This is not the way among YOU; but whoever wants to become great among YOU must be YOUR minister,
and whoever wants to be first among YOU must be YOUR slave. Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to,
but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.”
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yknot
It is a parable......
A warning to those who desire to take a lead not to fall into the temptations that come with leadership positions. A good slave to Christ can become a evil slave by his treatment and exaltation of himself within his own opinion.... A prime example would be the Pharisees who had good intentions at first but were seduced into self importance and a lifestyle of power and prestige.
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TD
Interesting.
How would the idea of Jesus being the "Slave" integrate with the larger context of the discourse?
IOW Matthew 24 and Luke 12 both consist largely of a series of parables directly related to the coming absence of the Lord, the interregnum and his future coming, specifically in regard to how Christ's followers were to comport themselves during that absence.
Interpreting Jesus as the slave rather than the Master would be an obvious break from that pattern. Jesus' disciples were shortly to be separated from him, but in what way could Jesus be viewed as being separated from the Master, especially for any length of time?
How would the conditionality expressed in Luke 12:43 (Which makes it fairly clear that the JW interpretation of two separate slaves, a "good" one and a "bad" one is wrong) apply to Jesus? How would that square with verses like Matthew 28:18?
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Doug Mason
It is my understanding of their teaching that the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" Class refers to the 144000, not to the Governing Body.
According to my understanding, the GB is the representative of the FDS, and the responsibility of the GB is to teach the FDS in the form of the "domestics". One could then argue on the fact that the FDS Class has no role in dispensing anything.
Doug
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parakeet
Whoever the faithful and discreet slave is, he/she should have heard of the Emacipation Proclamation by now.
Slave/slave class, whatever, you're free now. Go forth and be responsible and independent adult human beings.
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passwordprotected
Is Christ still a slave and will he return as a slave?
The answer is no; his time as a slave to mankind is over, he's now King of King and Lords of Lords. To suggest that he is under the inspection of some Master or other is false.
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quietlyleaving
If the parables of Matthew 24 and Luke 12 were put together and being circulated during the absence of "Jesus" then I think the parable of the faithful and discreet slave could be interpreted as seeing "Jesus" in the role of the master or in the role of the slave in the context of setting an example as has been mentioned. But of course this doesn't mean once a slave always a slave.
The fascinating thing about the formation of early christianity is that christian groups became portable forms of worship based on teachings for spiritual edification rather than on location based sacrifices as practiced by the Jews and by the Romans. So a parable like this one had and has a lot of power and significance. However this portability did morph into location based worship eventually but still kept the power of imparting a sense of portability, imo, for future generations.
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StoneWall
Is Christ still a slave and will he return as a slave?
The answer is no; his time as a slave to mankind is over, he's now King of King and Lords of Lords. To suggest that he is under the inspection of some Master or other is false.
See now you're projecting something that I never said. Where in Matt.24:45-47 does it say anything about him staying
a slave or remaining a slave? It says he would be appointed over all his belongings thus showing rulership over the
belongings.
And as far as Jesus not having a Master or head, you spent enough time as a JW to remember the headship arrangement
as brought out in the bible I'm sure. The head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, the head of Christ is God.
And once again to illustrate Christ being a servant after being resurrected lets look at Acts 3:13. Its pretty clear on him being
called God's servant. "The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom YOU, for YOUR part, delivered up and disowned before Pilate’s face, when he had decided to release him.
And passwordprotected you must remember I started this thread as a perspective, observation, viewpoint in regards to
that scripture in Matt.24:45.
Not as saying this was the way it is or has to be. Just food for thought. Because I had not ever heard anyone else to
my knowledge ask if Jesus could have been referring to himself.
But I do appreciate and respect your responses. Thats what I was after is open discussion.
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StoneWall
Oh I almost forgot one other scripture is in 1 Corinthians 15:27,28 showing Christ rulership and what it includes and
evidently what it doesn't include(God).
For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that
it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him,
then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.