Is the "torture stake" dogma a reverse idolatry in itself?

by JWoods 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  JWoods

  Witnesses have famously (and gleefully) tossed the usual Christain "T" Cross symbol overboard after having used it themselves for quite some time. One common arguement is that "if Christ had been shot by a rifle, you would not worship the image of the gun" -

  And yet, they do not shy away from INSISTING on the notion of the upright torture stake. This includes making pictures of the torture stake. They insist that (unlike the churches) - they do not hold onto it as a religious symbol. I am not so sure: How can they so dogmatically claim that only an upright stake is a worthy representation for true Christians? Would it not be just as well to simply say that "we just do not know"? I will stake a claim that if you refused to blindly accept the upright stake because there really is no way to know, you could in fact be disfellowshipped for apostacy.

  By seeming to be so unreasonably sure that it was an upright stake, are they not in fact making the upright stake (almost unique to JWs, BTW) into their own little bit of crucifixion symbology? Sort of like the brick watchtower image - in itself a symbolic JW icon.
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  mrsjones5

  I really don't think jws really understand the meaning of idolatry.
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  Chalam

  Well JWs would argue they are not wearing them around their necks.

  However, I agree, the doctrine is a symbol for the WT falsehood.

  Stauros does mean stake, post, pole or cross.

  It does in no way mean "torture", nor are there any other words in the Greek text which do.

  This is just another instance of why the NWT is clearly not "the most accurate" translation.

  The WT hate the cross, hence the doctrinal change from "cross" to "torture stake".

  1 Corinthians 1:18 (New International Version)

  18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

  Colossians 2:15 (New International Version)

  15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  PSacramento

  I am not sure the issue here, I mean Jesus chose the WT in 1919 after 5 years of divine examination and after the WT went through purification !!

  And they used the cross as a symbol not only from 1914-1919 but till at least 1929 !!
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  PSacramento

  And by the way, according to thr Epistle of Barnabas, the shape of the cross was the greek leter "Tau" = T
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  JWoods

  I really don't think jws really understand the meaning of idolatry.

  Exactly. Another "idol" is the constantly displayed YHWH. They make constant fun of the Catholics, for example, having religious carvings in their churches - but curiously see nothing at all wrong in having all kinds of imagery in the Watchtower and other printings - even going to the trouble to make up those color artwork calenders (at least back in my day; I suppose they may have dropped them now out of cost considerations). You know, as long as we are on the subject, didn't that ugly GREEN bible become a very ubiquitous JW symbol? As well as the WT and Awake cover symbology, etc.
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  Goshawk

  Somehow the song, "The old Rugged Torture-Stake" just doesn't have the same appeal.

  In this board somewhere is a thread that shows the image used in the JW publications but the complete image had all types of different Stauros.

  Also leolia wrote a very nice piece. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/92381/1.ashx
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  Narkissos

  Superstitiously non-superstitious, slavishly free, pick your oxymoron...
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  undercover

  They don't like the word "crucify" either. They always refer to Jesus being "impaled".

  One reference I read on "crucify" is that the word derives from the Latin term meaning "fix to a cross", so I can understand their reluctance to use the word. If you don't accept the the cross as the implement of death, you can't readily accept that Jesus was crucified (fixed to a cross)

  However, "impale" does not mean nailing someone to a stake. To be impaled means to have a stake pierce through the human body...kinda like a human shish kabob.

  For a group to be such a stickler about not accepting the cross because of the word "stauros" meaning pole or stake and to not use the word "crucify" due to its definition, they sure don't mind redefining the word "impale" to fit their own theology.
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  PSacramento

  Undercover,

  I don't think the WT lets something silly like "word definitions" dictate to them !!