Besty: thats a damn well posed question, i think that is a keeper! :-).
Perhaps there should be a 'best of' topic with 'Good questions to provoke thought'.
JW's Defend 607 BCE Teaching!
by tryingtoexit 54 Replies latest jw friends
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digderidoo
The weakest link in the WT argument is the 537BCE date for when Cyrus announced his decree. The WT uses the word 'probable' in estimating the time it took for the Jews to be released, yet at the same time place a certainty on the 607 date.
If the 537 date is probable and an estimate, then so is the 607 date and in turn 1914.
Paul
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Lady Liberty
Dear tryingtoexit,
Just a little side note....when the elders came to our home and we told them about what we had discovered with the date 607, the presiding overseer looked dumbfounded. The other one however looked us square in the eye and told us.."There IS NO PROOF for 607!!" The way he said it was like...ugh..dugh!!! And then he went on to tell us that we needed to pray for more faith!! We were floored that he openly admitted there is no proof for that date yet they will stand from the podium and teach it as fact!!! It is so frusterating! I guess I brought that up to you because it could be that your father really knows this already, but is trying to convince himself and you, that it is really a fact.
Good luck!
SIncerely,
Lady Liberty
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isaacaustin
I had the 607 discussion with a man my dad had brought into the lie many years ago recently. We touched on 537BCE as well, and I shwoed him everything. So he did the typical JW response:
I know that I may not be able to convince you on this point (((of Dan 4 having a fulfillment beyond Nebu))), or on the year 607 as the starting year, or whether the succession of Babylonian kings fit the timeline. I do not have the command of history or mathematics like you do. I do know this, though, that there was a beginning to the bad course man has taken in disobedience to God, and that there will be an ending of it at God's hands (Dan. 2:44). In Daniel 2 there is succession of world powers that are represented in Neb's dream by a large image, and that we are living in the days (at the feet of the image) that the destruction of all human governments will take place. My great desire for sharing this with you is because I care too much about you and want you and your family very much to be there in the new system of things to enjoy God's blessings with the rest of us... for "he that does the will of God remains forever". (1 John 2:15-17).
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isaacaustin
actually throut our whole dialog he was constantly apologizing for how he worded things. Here was his preceding paragraph to what I posted above (notice the full cult-mode):
I am so sorry that I have used the wrong term when talking about the scriptures in Num. and Eze. ("a day for a year") as a rule. I did not mean to say that it had to be applied as a rule to understand all the other prophetic scriptures. All I meant to say was that at the end of the 2,520 days (mentioned in Daniel and Revelation) nothing significant happened to indicate Jesus had begun to rule in heaven. Only when you change it to use years, as in Num. and Eze., that we come to 1914, a year that had some very significant events take place. I will not deny that the Bible students of the time had incorrect expectations of what Christ's coming really entailed, but they were aware that something special would take place then nonetheless. Let's not forget that the apostasy has been in full swing for so many centuries and the light of truth was obscured for so long. It would take time to get the correct understanding on things and adjustments would have to be made and humbly accept the discipline.
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sir82
The good news here:
Anyone with the intelligence of rock salt or above can see the gaping holes and logical leaps in the arguments for 607 BCE. By creating a website that is "safe" for JWs to read, it exposes the issue so that some, who were perhaps unaware of the discrepancy between what every historian on the planet believes vs. what the WTS teaches, will have their interest piqued.
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isaacaustin
It is crazy how EVERY link used to the 7 Gentiles TImes is a HUGE leap of logic. Each Scripture used to support each phase is simply a baseless assertion. Once done you are 20 years off due to a wrong starting date. And if wrong who has anything to lose? If all these historians and experts are wrong they simply scratch their heads for a minute and go back to the drawing board. If the WT is wrong they are exposed yet again as false prophets and their defense that what they predicted to happen in 1914 is now gone....
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JWoods
There is also the very simple fact that none of the dates derived from all this nonsense actually worked.
Already we have seen that Christ did NOT come back in 1914, the Generation of 1914 had to be re-jiggered in embarrasment (twice now in about 10 years), the derivative 1975 was probably the single most damaging thing the society has done to themselves in the last 100 years, and now even this 607 BCE foolishness is being back-pedaled by the WT writers.
None of it worked - hence - who cares if it were 607, 537, or x-blah-blah thousand?
It did not work.
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tryingtoexit
bobld- thanks I'll be checking that book out sometime this week.
VM44- Tell me more if you can
besty- Thanks! I like that, nice lil presentation of evidence there for me to use, lol, I cant wait to reveal the "facts", not opinions but facts.
distazo- Elaborate more if you can, I'm interested in what you stated
Stephen- Props as always, yeah I've read those scriptures with my wife and my father before, as well as the ones where the apostles couldnt see Jesus until their eyes were opened, I think it's quite ridiculous as well to call Jesus a spirit CREATURE just because on a few occasions they didnt recognize him right away.
avishai- Yeah that was a great thread, lots of classic information in there.
MissingLink- Right. They'll do anything to make those dates work, yet when you bring up the resurrection of ancient prophets in 1925, they just say well the light got brighter. What were they basing that stuff on in the first place???
digderidoo- Exxxxxactly
Lady Liberty- Wow! That's crazy, see I cant stomach that type of mess right in front of my face, but yeah anything that agrees with "their" viewpoint they jump all over, I'm 100% witnesses dont even cross examine evidence to see if it really supports their beliefs, long as it does they dont need to check and see if it's right. The same as say you need a certain appliance for a specific need in your home, so you start to shop online, you're not going to buy the first one you see that you need. You're going to read up on it, check out the reviews from people that have already tried it, compare it to other ones, as well as try to find one cheaper. Witnesses dont seem to do that kind of homework, just "ohh I found a website that supports 607 BCE, let me copy and paste it" LOL! Without even reading it thoroughly, retardedness...
isaacaustin- I think thats what my dad will say, well back then they were wrong about a lot of things, but at least they're humble enough to admit it. The problem is they still teach the very things that people in and outside the org. know is false, crazy. And you're right, if historians are wrong they simply correct it, whether it be fossil evidence, whatever, they always fix their mistakes or update them, but the WTS, nope, they just say "We're going to figure out a way to make this work!"
sir82- LOL! You're absolutely right.
JWoods- Yup, and that 1975 mess is embarrassing, I remember I told my dad what I found on that, he said "They never said that 1975 was going to be the end" but my dad graduated from high school in 1973, he didnt start taking "the truth" seriously until he met my mom in 1976, so he really didnt remember. When I showed him articles as well as I think it was a talk at a D.C. by Franz where it all points to 1975, he was shocked, really didnt say anything, then just said a couple days later "The light got brighter, and they corrected their mistake in future literature"
It's always the light got brighter, I'm tired of hearing that, makes me wanna smack the living dayLIGHT out of somebody.
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jonathan dough
I wrote a very detailed article/paper on the 607 issue. The JWs really do not have a leg to stand on. They have recently switched to letting the "Bible" speak for itself eventhough the archeological evidence is so strong against them. But their theory is simply a myth.