New Light on Prayer in NOV 15 WT Study Edition

by lepermessiah 56 Replies latest jw friends

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  isaacaustin

  i agree ae
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  keyser soze

  Are hand jobs out?
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  angel eyes

  Thanks IA. :)

  Hand jobs...Ewww
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  sir82

  they never will say you "cant". It's all suggestive...a hint for everyone to get the point.

  Very true. That's been their MO for well over 100 years.

  "Mature Christians refrain from..." "The course of wisdom dictates..." "In order to avoid stumbling others, many avoid..."

  In other words, "No, we don't say you can't do XYZ...but if you go ahead and do it anyway, we, and everyone in the congregation, will view you as weak, immature, unwise, and a stumbling block. And of course that means you will be a social outcast, on the fringes of the congregation but not really a part of it. And don't forget you can't [wink] have any worldly friends either. So, yeah, go ahead and do XYZ, if you don't mind being treated as a virtual leper."
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  rocketman

  When this matter first came up in a previous thread, I mentioned that I wasn't bothered by it because the hand-holding seemed corny and pretentious to me. But I also mentioned that this can be taken and applied as a rule among the more judgmental jws.

  Giving this further thought, it is a very worrisome development, because it does open the door to Pharisaic rule-making. The WTS need not say 'you can't' - other jws will take care of that. Those who 'might be stumbled' will take care of it too.

  The same thing happens in many other areas of life that should be personal choice. The Society makes a statement on it (such as playing school sports) and the elders and other jws take it to the next level. And that level is virtually always more strict and pharisaic.
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  HappyDad

  angel eyes,

  "Im still always going to hold my husbands hand during prayer."

  Let us know how it turns out.

  HappyDad
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  OnTheWayOut

  AE: It says discreetly holding hands not "CANNOT hold hands". Thats the point i was making, they arent saying we cant :)

  AE: I dont get hints...sorry I never read into things. Direct and to the point, hinting is a waste of time, something I dont appreciate and dont have time for.

  It doesn't say "CANNOT EMBRACE" either. If you want to be sensible and logical and use your own judgement, I support you. But don't expect your logic and judgement and sensibleness to get past the elders. They will tell you what "Mother" meant. Afterall, they are appointed to guard the flock.

  The problem here is that they say anything beyond what is written in the Bible. They obviously don't want group hand-holding or couples embracing. Some will read more or less about what WTS is saying, but why should they say it at all?
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  angel eyes

  rocketman yes i think you have a point there but believe me, they wont play silly mind games with me, I follow Jah scriptually, and aslong as i dont do anything unscriptual, which i never want to do either, then im fine in Jah's eyes. I wont allow time wasting,gossip jw to direct my steps....
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  daniel-p

  They could all just kill themselves and then there would be zero risk of offending each other.
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  AGuest

  (and very interesting that certain ones who claim loyalty to God and Christ didn't seem to get this)... is that they're concerned about "stumbling" others due to spouses showing tenderness toward each other... and NOT due to them overstepping the COMMAND of God!

  THEY say:

  When we are being represented in public prayer, we need to display reverential "fear of God."

  CHRIST said... and I QUOTE (from their Bible):

  "Also, when YOU pray, YOU MUST NOTbe as the HYPOCRITES; because THEY like to pray... STANDING IN THE SYNAGOGUES and on the broad waysSO AS TO BE VISIBLE... TO MEN. Truly I say to YOU... THEY are having THEIR reward... in FULL. YOU, however, when YOU pray... GO INTO YOUR PRIVATE ROOM and... AFTER SHUTTING YOUR DOOR... PRAY... to your Father who is in SECRET; then your Father... WHO LOOK ON IN SECRET... will repay YOU." Matthew 6:5, 6

  A "synagogue," dear ones... is a PUBLIC PLACE OF MEETING to discuss things relating to God's people, INCLUDING THE SCRIPTURES. They didn't have "churches" or "kingdom halls" when my Lord spoke ... and Matthew later wrote about... this command. Back then, they were called "synagogues." A "Kingdom Hall"... IS A SYNAGOGUE. Okay? That's WHY the Sunday Talk is called "the PUBLIC Talk"!! It is what the place once called a "synagogue" would be called TODAY.

  And it the "place" that my Lord warned those belonging to him they would be EXPELLED (disfellowshipped? Okay???) from. John 16:2; 9:34 (in fact, read the entire Chapter 9, as it speaks about man who was DISFELLOWSHIPPED... and Christ himself went to find)

  I just don't get how ones... like perhaps you, dear Angel Eyes (and I bid you the greatest of love and peace!)... who call themselves "lovers" of God... see absolutely NO problem with "overstepping" the COMMANDMENTS of God... which we receive THROUGH Christ... for the TRADITIONS... of men. Matthew 15:3

  There is absolutely NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for this issue to even be an issue. There is NOTHING that SCRIPTURALLY prevents a man or woman from showing their spouse a little tender affection, whether it be by hand-holding OR by putting their arms around one another... at ANY time. In fact, THE VERY OPPOSITE is true! Husbands are admonished to LOVE their wives... JUST AS CHRIST LOVED THE CONGREGATION... and AS THEIR OWN BODIES. Ephesians 5:25, 28 What husband WANTS a wife to stand off from HIM? Doesn't EVERY husband want to be shown tender affection? EVERY ONE OF THEM? Yes, they do (even if they say they don't - they're lying... or emotionally "sick"). And so such ones should be able to SHOW such tender affection, yes? Of course!

  These who are "stumbled" by a couple showing tender affection toward one another are NOT BEING stumbled: they are stumbling THEIRSELVES. They are ANGRY... and JEALOUS. Why? Because... they are without mates... or loving relationships of their own. And rather than looking AT THE MAN IN THE MIRROR for this circumstance... they blame others. They do not take responsibility for their own contribution to their singleness: too high standards/expectations (heck, are THEY "perfect"? No.); overbearing; controlling; lacking SENSITIVITY or OVERLY sensitive; having to have things go "their" way... or no way at all; unreasonable; or unable to choose between a potentially "bad" match and a "good" match... because (1) they don't really know themselves or what they want... or don't want, or (2) because they're looking to marry "Jesus" or some kind of "Mary/Martha" combination... or the next best thing to it.

  Or a plethora of other reasons... including the fact that they are GAY (which I am not condemning, by no means - I am NO ONE's judge) and so could NEVER have a [true] mate while in the WTBTS... and watching others have what they CAN'T have has frustrated them to the point of anger and jealousy.

  That is NOT to say that ALL single JWs are of this ilk. I am sure there are those who have absolutely NO problem with their fellow married members who have good relationships... and who MANIFEST that by displaying their tender affections and ARE tender with each other... and either want that same kind of relationship and are willing to wait patiently until such relationship occurs for them... or have resigned themselves to singleness... for whatever reason... but REJOICE with those who have it now. They are not stumbled... but hopeful... and/or resigned... and content.

  These others, however... are going to make an already huge problem (the many, many, familial and spousal relationship disorders and dysfunction already existing in that harlot) even worse! Many husbands already have problems with "what to do with" their wives during the menstruation cycle ("She's 'unclean' so I need to stay absolutely away from her... because I'm a man... and have 'manly' urges, even during those times, so I have to stay away. Can't even cuddle, no sir!" ... a complaint I heard from a Pioneer "sister" and CO's wife when I first started studying with the JWs).

  And so sadly, now even more uncertain how to act, couples will become even more alienated... to the detriment of their [possibly already floundering] relationships... their children... their nucleus family. And the WTBTS "wolves" will deserve EVERY single second of every single "counseling" session they're going to have spend time on as a result. That is what they GET... for overstepping the commandment of GOD... with this [new] "tradition"!

  [Sadly shakes head over those who still cannot yet see that the "scribes and Pharisees" of the WTBTS "strain out the gnat (by opposing even minimal displays of tender affection between spouses, such as embracing in public)... but GULP down the whole dang camel (by offering "public" prayers... "while standing in the synagogue")

  I bid you ALL peace... and ears to hear and listen to the SPIRIT... and the COURAGE to stop listening to MAN... blind guides... who are NOT going [into the kingdom] themselves... nor can they lead ANYONE ELSE in! If you want to save your marriage... GET OUT OF HER. If you want to save your SPIRIT... then GET OUT OF HER... AND listen to the Spirit and the Bride, who KEEP saying, "Come!"

  Come to Christ, dear ones, and drink FROM HIM. Take HIS yoke upon you and learn FROM HIM. For HIS yoke is KINDLY... and HIS "load"... is LIGHT. He would NEVER make an issue out of something like this... NOR ask a man and woman who are married to withhold even the tiniest display of their tender affections from one another.... or hide them from others.

  "Come! All you who are thirsting and ANYONE who wishes... TAKE LIFE'S 'WATER'... FREE!"

  A slave of Christ,

  SA