Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-25-09 WT Study (August 15, 2009, pages 18-21)(GOD'S LOVE)
Review comments will be in red or headed by COMMENTS
WT material from today's WT will be in black
Quotes from other sources will headed by QUOTES
w = Watchtower
g = Awake
jv = Proclaimers book
Bible translations www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
WT publications www.strictlygenteel.co.uk
WT child abuse www.silentlambs.org
Blood issue www.ajwrb.org
United Nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm
Also posted on
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http://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/
"KEEP YOURSELVES IN GOD'S LOVE" "Keep yourselves in God's love, while you are waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view."--Jude 21.
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http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3531
OPENING COMMENTS
Does God's love = WTS approval?
START OF ARTICLE
Q1,2. How has Jehovah shown his love for us, and how do we know that he does not automatically keep us in his love?
1. Countless ways? Details please. Jesus is more than just a impersonal tool to reach God. What about Jesus' love
for us?
2. So is the WTS saying there is some way to earn God's love?
What was the human race doing to earn God's love according to John 3:16?
QUOTES
*** Close to Jehovah chap. 24 p. 249 par. 20 Nothing Can “Separate Us From God’s Love” ***
So while we bask in the warmth of our heavenly Father’s love, let us be sound in mind and remember that we neither
earn nor deserve God’s love.—Luke 17:10.
Q3. What did Jesus say was essential for him to remain in his Father's love?
Observe Jesus' commandments; notice how they segue from Jesus to Jehovah's commandments.
Who interprets what those are? Religious leaders? Did Jesus say that his followers should heed their interpretations?
(Mark 7:9-13) 9 Further, he went on to say to them: “Adroitly YOU set aside the commandment of God in order to retain
YOUR tradition. 10 For example, Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Let him that reviles father or
mother end up in death.’ 11 But YOU men say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother: “Whatever I have by which you
may get benefit from me is corban, (that is, a gift dedicated to God,)”’— 12 YOU men no longer let him do a single
thing for his father or his mother, 13 and thus YOU make the word of God invalid by YOUR tradition which YOU handed
down. And many things similar to this YOU do.”
(Matthew 23:1-3) . . .Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees
have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do
according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform.
Good standing in God's eyes or the WTS/FDS/GB?
Have you tried to find a detailed written explanation in the publications of what "good standing" means in the WTS?
Besides being df'd or da'ing yourself or being on restrictions due to being reproved, that would make someone not in
"good standing"?
Q4,5. (a) What is the primary way we can show that we love Jehovah? (b) Why do we not have any reason to recoil at
the thought of obeying Jehovah's commandments?
4. loving God = obeying WTS/FDS/GB? Are we to obey God as ruler rather than men, even at the WTS/FDS/GB?
QUOTES
*** w07 2/1 p. 24 par. 12 Never Cease Growing in Your Appreciation ***
obedience. We must obediently follow the direction Jehovah provides through his Word and his organization.
*** w05 3/15 p. 24 Highlights From the Book of First Samuel ***
As we offer to Jehovah “the young bulls of our lips,” we must do our best to obey the direction he gives through his
written Word and the earthly part of his organization.
*** w98 8/15 p. 19 par. 12 Strengthening Our Confidence in God’s Righteousness ***
Let us be convinced that obeying Jehovah, following the direction given through his organization and accepting his
decisions, is the right thing to do.
5. Are our limitations defined by God or the WTS/FDS/GB?
Who asks us, God or the WTS/FDS/GB?
Embrace obedience to God or the WTS/FDS/GB?
Q6,7. (a) What is the conscience? (b) Illustrate how the conscience can help us to remain in God's love.
6. Decision to obey God or the WTS.......? Does the WTS feel that any individual jw can depend on their conscience?
Who evaluates, us or the organization?
7. Conscience = compass
Q8,9. (a) what limitations of our conscience do we need to keep in mind? (b) what can we do to make sure that our
conscience is truly useful to us?
8. our desires = magnet; reliable map = Bible but not without using WTS publications too
Demonizing people "in this world", "many people...give undue prominence..." "so many people....do terrible things"
BOX
leaving WTS = leaving God
Problem generally involves CONDUCT not DOCTRINE.....Is this true? I don't think so.
9. Are jws educated by God's word or WTS writings?
Do individual jws respect the consciences of others to avoid stumbling? Are these more sensitive or insensitive? Did
Jesus say it was right for his disciples to wash in the ritualistic way the Pharisees preferred? Did Jesus say they should
bow to the "sensitive" consciences of the Pharisees?
(Mark 7:1-8) . . .Now the Pharisees and some of the scribes that had come from Jerusalem gathered about him. 2 And
when they saw some of his disciples eat their meal with defiled hands, that is, unwashed ones— 3 for the Pharisees
and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands up to the elbow, holding fast the tradition of the men of former
times, 4 and, when back from market, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves by sprinkling; and there are many
other traditions that they have received to hold fast, baptisms of cups and pitchers and copper vessels;— 5 so these
Pharisees and scribes asked him: “Why is it your disciples do not conduct themselves according to the tradition of the
men of former times, but they take their meal with defiled hands?” 6 He said to them: “Isaiah aptly prophesied about
YOU hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honor me with [their] lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 7 It is
in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.’ 8 Letting go the
commandment of God, YOU hold fast the tradition of men.”
Q10. What three areas of life will we now discuss?
a) Love whom God loves (or who the WTS tells you it is proper to love)
b) Respect authority (God's, Jesus', or the religious leaders in the WTS)
c) Clean in God's eyes (or the WTS)
LOVE THOSE WHOM JEHOVAH LOVES
Q11. Why should we love those whom Jehovah loves?
There are no perfect people on earth. All our associations will be imperfect people. God has not had dealings only
with perfect people but then as the WTS says he can't be corrupted by his associations. Remembering John 3:16,
who does God love?
Q12. What type of friends does Jehovah choose?
OT--Abraham, yet he had 2 wives at the same time knowing that the pattern set in Eden was only one wife. He sent
away Hagar and Ishmael without making any provision for them. He lied to Abimelech about Sarah being his sister
which brought disease on Abimelech and his household because Abraham did not rely on God to protect him from
harm and preserve the promise of the seed.
Q13. When it comes to selecting friends, what can help us to make good choices?
OT--Ruth and Naomi--Naomi moved away from Israel to Moab, unable to worship God at the temple or with a group of
fellow worshippers. She allowed her sons to marry non-jews. What example was she of a faithful Israelite for Ruth of
showing "genuine love for Jehovah" To help you to obey [God], to grow spiritually?
OT--David and Jonathan--David was an adulterer and murderer who was not executed for those crimes but rather his
innocent son died for David's sins and wives that were raped publicly, who deliberately and knowingly also disobeyed
God and took a census, choosing a punishment that caused the deaths of 70,000 innocent Israelites who had nothing
to do with it. Was that a good example of showing "genuine love for God..." for Jonathan?
NT--Paul and Timothy--Did Paul train Timothy to show genuine love for Jesus first? Christian congregation = only jws
per WTS.
QUOTES
*** w95 12/15 p. 28 Righteousness Exalts a Nation ***
Though some thousands are disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation each year, it is only a small percentage
of the nearly five million Witnesses in the world.
(Romans 8:35-39) 35 Who will separate us from the love of the Christ? Will tribulation or distress or persecution or
hunger or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 Just as it is written: “For your sake we are being put to death all day long,
we have been accounted as sheep for slaughtering.” 37 To the contrary, in all these things we are coming off
completely victorious through him that loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor
governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers 39 nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be
able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
RESPECT AUTHORITY
Q14. What factors often make it difficult for us to show respect for authority?
So if humans in authority are imperfect that a Christian must always obey them?
(Acts 5:27-29) 27 So they brought them and stood them in the Sanhedrin hall. And the high priest questioned them
28 and said: “We positively ordered YOU not to keep teaching upon the basis of this name, and yet, look! YOU have
filled Jerusalem with YOUR teaching, and YOU are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer
Peter and the [other] apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.
Q15,16. (a) Why is it important for us to respect those whom Jehovah has entrusted with the responsibility to care for
his people? (b) What valuable lesson do we learn from how Jehovah viewed the rebellion of the Israelites against
Moses?
15. So does respect for God's authority = respect for men's authority? What if they require what does not mesh with
God's requirements?
What if you had been in this congregation? Would you have imitated Peter because he was an apostle and not said
anything? Would he have been an example of showing "genuine love for God"?
(Galatians 2:11-13) 11 However, when Cephas came to Antioch, I resisted him face to face, because he stood
condemned. 12 For before the arrival of certain men from James, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when
they arrived, he went withdrawing and separating himself, in fear of those of the circumcised class. 13 The rest of the
Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense (NWT footnote, hypocrisy), so that even Barnabas was led along with
them in their pretense.
Would they have obeyed David as a murderer or Manasseh and thrown their children into the fire?
16. OT--Moses--does Moses = WTS? So has the WTS done anything equivalent to splitting the Red Sea possible
proof that God put him into his position of authority? So God USUALLY "exercises his authority through imperfect
humans." So what choice does he have, except for Adam, Eve, and Jesus, what perfect humans have lived on earth?
So if Christians were to obey men rather than God.....?
What proof is there that jw men were placed in their positions of authority? What about the elders and MS that have
used their positions to molest children in the congregation?
Q17. What right attitude should we endeavor to cultivate toward those having positions of authority in the
congregations?
What attitude should jws have toward elders who have molested children in the congregation? Did Paul accept's
Peter's behavior just because Peter was one of the original 12 apostles?
REMAIN CLEAN IN JEHOVAH'S EYES
Q18. Why does Jehovah want us to remain clean?
So was physical cleanness more important than spiritual cleanness? Refer back to Jesus' statements to the Pharisees
regarding their concern about the apostles not washing their hands.
Demonizing everyone not jw = DEFILED WORLD
Do jws stand out in the world by not divorcing their mates for reasons other than adultery, abusing their children,
defrauding their members....?
Q19. How do we know that physical cleanliness is important?
What was more important physical or spiritual cleanness?
Q20. In what ways do we need to remain clean?
Which was more important, inside or outside?
(Matthew 23:25-26) 25 “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU cleanse the outside of the cup
and of the dish, but inside they are full of plunder and immoderateness. 26 Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of
the cup and of the dish, that the outside of it also may become clean.
Can the worship of jws be clean if its authorities hide the actions of pedophiles in their midst?
How worse can that be than the so-called "sexual degradation of the world" as the WTS demonizes everyone who is
not a jw?
So which is worse hiding pedophiles in your midst or "false religious celebrations and holidays"?
Q21. How can we be sure that we will remain in God's love?
By following Jesus' example, not the example of a group that named itself JEHOVAH's Witnesses.
CONCLUDING COMMENTS
Remain in God's love = remaining in the WTS
How many times has a jw said to you that you "left Jehovah" because you stopped going to the meetings. Remember
did Naomi leave God because she moved to Moab, evidently not because she is used as a good example.
Do you think Isaiah was trotting down to worship God in the temple when it was full of false images and priests
rendering worship to them? Do you think he stayed home and worshipped with his family.
NEXT WEEK, Keep Christ's Mental Attitude in You....
Love, Blondie