Well since there is not a chance to be raised from the dead then I better make sure I don't die.The way the world is right now going down the tube , well then I am going to buy a few guns ,and protect myself at ALL COST. SHOOT TO KILL!!!!
No where in the bible does it say that people will be raised from the dead...
by ex-perfectdaughter 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Chalam
Frank75 Conversely a script often used by us in field circus and when self congratulating ourselves from the platform, actually puts the lie to any such hope. Speaking of the dead:
. . .and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. . .(Ecclesiastes 9:6)
The gist of the verse is regards the immediate circumstance of the dead, however the last expression perpetuates that circumstance continually.
Agreed, JWs quote Ecc 9:5 all day long without talking into account the verse next verse.
The "no longer take part in anything under the sun" statement in verse 6 makes complete sense in light of these verses.
Matthew 24:29 (New International Version)
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'Isaiah 60:19 (New International Version)
19 The sun will no more be your light by day,
nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you,
for the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.Revelation 21:23 (New International Version)
23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
As a side note, interesting to see that Isaiah says the Father will be the light and Revelation states Jesus is the light. No surprises as Jesus and the Father are one John 10:30
All the best,
Stephen
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the real life
I was flipping through my old NWT a few weeks ago and I decided to look up all the scriptures listed in Topics for Discussion under 'Earth', 'Life', 'Kingdom', etc. and I found the doctrine about a paradise earth extremely difficult to deduce from the scriptures used to support it. It's a vague possibility at best.
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Chalam
I found the doctrine about a paradise earth extremely difficult to deduce from the scriptures used to support it
That pretty much sums up the WT theology :(
All the best,
Stephen
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BurnTheShips
No resurrection there in the original Hebrew; it was the LXX (Greek translation) that added the hope to the text.
Added? I've read the LXX descended from an older source than the Masoretic text. Would you please educate me if I am wrong?
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wokeup
Daniel 12:2 alludes to a resurrection but not specific on locality. I find it sad the watchtower leadership wants to 'spiritualize' this passage since it goes against watchtower doctine. "in the Bible, resurrection sometimes has a spiritual significance...a spiritual revival of Gods annointed servants in the time of the end...in 1919 they returned to life in a spiritual sense".
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drew sagan
Great article JW facts, I had no idea Matthew 5:5 only applied to the anointed .
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Awen
The WTS loves to quote from old prophecies and apply them to our modern day, such as each person sitting under their own fig tree and no one making them tremble, or the lion laying down with the sheep, etc. All the prophecies applied to Israel in times past and have already been fulfilled. The Apostle Paul said there are a new heavens and a new earth which we are awaiting according to his promise and in these, righteosness is to dwell. So if righteousness dwells in heaven and on earth, then either the earth will be peaceful because there are no humans upon it or because there will indeed be a paradise earth.
Personally, I don't care. I know Jesus has my best interests at heart and where ever he wants to put me, is fine by me.
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GromitSK
True but there is a Witch in the forest with a house made of candy.
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Leolaia
Added?
In this case, the LXX renders Job 19:25-26 as: " For I know that he is eternal who is about to deliver me, and to raise up (anastésai) upon the earth my skin that endures these sufferings: for these things have been accomplished to me of the Lord". This became a favorite proof-text for the resurrection of the body by early church fathers (as the verb used here is the main word for referring to resurrection), and the wording was improved upon in subsequent versions (cf. 1 Clement 26:1-3 which changes the form of the verb to make it more clearly a future prediction, and John Chrysostom, Commentarius in Iob 19.12, who replaces derma mou "my skin" with sóma "body"). S ó ma also appears in the Codex Alexadrinus version of the LXX. This passage directly follows the wish in v. 23-24 for Job's words to be recorded forever in a book or stele and the LXX adds an interpolation at 42:17 which may have ch. 19 as an antecedent, which says that "it is written that he will rise again with those the Lord raises up". The LXX also adds a resurrection hope to ch. 14 (which in the Hebrew precludes such a hope). It is however possible that the (original) LXX only understands the restoration in 19:26 in the sense of Job's skin returning to its original health (as he was suffering from a skin disease), for this is how the Targum of Job understands the passage as well ("after my skin is again made whole").
The Hebrew is very difficult in v. 26 (possibly with textual corruptions), particularly the plural verb nqpw which could come from two different roots, "strip bare, flay" or "encompass". Most translations accept the first, as it fits Job's situation quite well and the second is difficult to interpret. Here is how v. 25-26 in the Hebrew is rendered by Norman Habel (The Book of Job: A Commentary, 1985): "I know my redeemer lives and afterward he will rise on the dust -- after, that is, my skin is peeled off! But from my flesh I would behold Eloah". This is quite different from the LXX. The LXX reparses the lines of poetry, eliminates the redeemer/advocate as a distinct figure from God (as he is in various passages in Job), then via anastésai reads Hebrew yqwm "he will arise" (referring to the redeemer figure alone) as yqym "he will raise up" (referring to God and Job's skin), and then elides the verb npqw (as "my skin" already has anastésai as its verb). It is worth noting that the (proto)-Theodotionic recension of the LXX amends the text in the direction towards the MT; it has in v. 25: "My nearest relative lives (ho agkhisteus mou z é ), and at the last he will rise up upon the mound (eskhaton epi khómatos anast é sei)". Here the advocate figure is distinct from God and the "rise up" verb is associated with him rather than Job's skin, just as it is in the MT. Jerome's Vulgate also knows a similar Hebrew text but he takes the "rise up" verb as referring to Job himself (instead of the redeemer figure as in the MT or Job's skin as in the LXX) and he takes nqpw in the sense of "encompass", and with a few other liberties, the Latin makes the text refer to resurrection in a quite different way: "For I know that my redeemer lives, and in the last day I shall rise out of the earth (de terra surrecturus sim), and I shall be clothed again with my skin (rursum circumdabor pelle mea), and in my flesh I shall see my God".
I've read the LXX descended from an older source than the Masoretic text. Would you please educate me if I am wrong?
The LXX manuscripts are older than the oldest MT manuscripts, but both derive from different text types; just as we might have the Western Text, the Majority Text, the Alexandrine Text in the case of the NT, so one might think of three main text types for the OT: the Babylonian text-type (whence the MT), the Palestinian text-type (whence the Qumran version of the text), and the Egyptian text type (whence the LXX). Each had quite a lively life of redaction and composition over the many centuries (the Old Greek and the LXX having as much history outside of Egypt as inside), such that it might be best to regard each as different editions of the books in question. The Babylonian text type may be just as old as the Egyptian, but it had somewhat longer to undergo textual development. The LXX also properly refers to the Christian version of the Greek OT dating to the third and fourth centuries AD (e.g. it is not identical with the Old Greek from the third century BC onward) and we can readily see redactions in the centuries that followed; the replacement of "skin" with "body" (which improves the wording in favor of a resurrection reading) is one such example. Also the Egyptian text type survives only in a Greek translation and thus there is the added problem of distinguishing variances in the underlying Hebrew text (the Vorlage) from variances produced by the translation process itself.