Child Molestation and the Two Witness Rule

by garyneal 26 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    This morning, as I was fixing breakfast, my wife and I got on the subject of religion (again) and I apologized to her for some of the things I said yesterday regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    In short, I said that given the way she treated me in regards to keeping me in the dark about certain financial situations, overdrawing her checking account and running up $500 in credit card debt due to her overdrafts that I am surprised the elder and his wife would approve of her activities in light of their teachings. I said, "When you go to their house and study that book 'Keeping Yourself in God's Love' with them, ask them what they would think of you taking such a nonchalant attitude over how you are managing the household finances and the way you respond to me when I inquire about the situation. Telling me that 'I should not worry' and that 'I am being fed and have a roof over my head' in such a way that I should just be quiet about it and let you be in charge." I then said, "If being a Jehovah's Witness is such a good thing and improves attitudes and marraiges, prove it. Why should I become a witness if this is what they allow or even condone?" She said, "Why should I try to prove anything?" Then I said, "Personally, I think that if I became a witness, in a year I would end up being disfellowshipped for apostacy because there would be some doctrinal issue that I disagree with." She said, "I think you'd be a better witness than I would." I said, "I doubt it, besides, from what I've been reading I think I am better off staying as far away from them as possible. These are people that one does not want to associate with."

    As you can see, the exchange got a little heated. Personally the issue regarding finances is normal and has nothing to do with religion or a lack of it. My only problem was the attitude taken by her when I try to have a rational discussion with her over this or any other issue where she feels strongly about something. My way or the highway is the general response.

    Anyway, back to this morning's apology. I apologized for the exchanged and said that I said some things that in hind sight were inappropriate. She said, "I just can't help but to think that if I were a Baptist, Holiness, or whatever, we would not be having these exchanges." I said, "I understand, but you got to understand the uniqueness of your religion. They put down all other religions claiming that they are the only ones who are right and then act in ways that make them out to look like hypocrits." I continued, "Think of the child molestation issue in regards to the witnesses. I understand that when it happens, the parents cannot report it to the police until the elders are consulted first. The elders require 'two witnesses' to validate the charge or otherwise, the offending brother is not disfellowshipped. Where will one find 'two eye witnesses' other than the offender and the victim in such a case? If the brother is not disfellowshipped, the parents of the victim are discouraged from contacting the authorities for fear of 'bringing reproach upon Jehovah's name.'" She did not believe this and stated that if something happened to our daughter, she would verify it first and if necessary press charges. I told her about Barbara Anderson's story though I could not remember the full story at the time. I told her that she was in the writing department at Bethel and had learned about the issues surrounding the Watchtower concering child molestation. I said, "How can they put down the Catholic church and their problems concerning priests and alter boys but deny or even cover up their owns issues regarding child abuse." I even told her that just before Barbara went public with her findings, she was disfellowshipped and the witnesses were told not to believe her testamony.

    My wife said, "I think there are two sides to that story and she was not giving you the full picture. If this organization is truly engaged in this practice, then it is an organization that I do not want to be a part of. How could I believe that this is true?" I replied, "I don't know, it's too bad we cannot verify these things first hand. I could show you her testamony, but since she was disfellowshipped I know you will not read it."

    Maybe some of the people on this board can relate and/or share their testamony. I've been to silentlambs.org but I guess given the way the Watchtower seems to operate, how can anyone convince the rank and file witness (or even those who have never been witnesses) that these things are really happening? A lot of the testamonies I share with my wife regarding WT issues don't seem to jive with her personal experiences. For example, the policy of shunning disfellowshipped people (including family) is something she has never seen happen in her personal experience. The disfellowshipped ones are still treated nicely by their JW family according to her experiences. The stories I read here about family members completely cutting off all relations with disfellowshipped ones are something she beleives (from the things she's personally witnessed) does not exist. She thinks all of this stuff is coming from a bunch of people who are mad and seeking to slander the organization because they want to do something the Bible does not approve of.

  • Heartbreaker
    Heartbreaker

    Wow Gary, that's just tough. I can tell you personally, I'd be willing to email her my personal story, living in a family that suffered sexual abuse with minors, disfellowshipping of siblings, of myself, of cousins....and the shunning attached to it. My best friend was also living in a household where there was sexual abuse. It's rampant, it's everywhere, the world and JW's Org alike, the only difference is, is in the way it's handled for the most part. Secrecy, shaming of the victim, silence towards the perpetrator, which allows that one power. It's just sick sick business, and I wish she'd read silentlambs, or ask around at the hall, or her local body of elders, what is the "right" way to treat a disfellowshipped one. Heck, even read her own publications!! It's insanity, but I understand her blinders. I really do. PM me if I can be of help.

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    Sorry, but time will tell. Keep her primed to see it when it comes up. Perhaps you know a DF'd person who is moral, upstanding and not a dirtbag as the Society says? If so, have them over for dinner. Definitely leave Crisis of Conscience out where she can find it. W.Once

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Thanks Heartbreaker,

    I think I will ask her to ask the elders the "right" way to treat a disfellowshipped person. Since she is currently an unbaptized publisher, I would not be surprised if the elders don't 'dance' around that question. I don't know but I do know that the elder she studies with seems to me to be a really nice guy. Perhaps he is one of the exceptions or perhaps it is a ruse to reel in a new convert (I don't know).

    Wasanelder:

    I happen to have that book but I keep it at work for fear that she may throw it away if she finds it. I told her about it and as usual she says that there may be more to it than that. All I can say in response is, "Has the Watchtower answered any of Raymond Franz's allegations? If not, why do they choose to remain silent?"

    ---------

    Honestly, I find myself not knowing what to think at times about this organization and about the so called 'apostate opposers' of it. The fact that many posters here are atheists would certainly seem to play into the Watchtower's hands concerning those who leave the 'truth.' Though I can understand why someone who was hurt by the only religion that they knew, the religion that claimed to be the only true religion, would wonder if this whole God business is for real. I find myself actually being thankful that my parents were never really into going to church and that I only began attending church in my early 20's as oppose to being raised in one.

    I find my wife at times even question the existence of God and thinking of Him as someone who is very egotistical to demand His creation to worship Him. But at the same time, she wants to do the 'right thing' and fears being destroyed by Him and since this religion has been taught to her since her childhood, she believes it is the only true religion.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    If she's still unbaptized try to get her to reason on doctrine's history and evolution. Where is disfellowshipping taught in the bible in the same way wts teaches it's flock? The elder you mention may not be an exception as there are many many "nice" people in congregations but he may be extra nice because she is new or because extra friendliness is shown so maybe you can take interest. There are many genuine nice people in the congregations but most witnesses don't know their own history and many are so dependand on the governing body that they will not dare question them as that would show disloyalty to the organization and in their minds would mean being disloyal to "Jehovah."

    If an individual can seperate the leaders from being divinely guided by God and see that they are just men, the individual may more likely reason as to why teachings have changed and why certain rules are applied and why these things are dangerous to the individual witnesses and why wts is wrong to join. You point out that since your wife is leaving whatever church she attended her friends will not shun her nor will her family stop talking to her but if she were to leave wts after being baptized she would be shunned by jw friends and family members may or may not talk to her. Yes, there are family members who still talk to their df or da family members but some don't. JW "friends" typically totally shun non family df or da members.

    The reason I bring up doctrine is that if she's went to her church before and is planning on switching what is she gaining by accepting new but different lies? Basic wts lies are 607BC for Jerusalem's fall which they use to establish 1914 date as Christ return but only after teaching 1874 as Jesus return for almost 50 years! If state of Israel believes 607bc is not the date but 586/587bc for the fall what are the chances that uneducated people in Brooklyn with no archeological evidence can point to a different date. If wts has false teachings why exchange one man run religion for another man run religion?

  • avishai
    avishai

    She can ask me...

    I'll put up some links. Also, ask her why the WTS felt the need to add gag orders for most of their settlements if they didn't do anything wrong....

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    diamondiiz:

    My wife never attended church (except occasionally with me) but was instead raised a Jehovah's Witness. She is now trying to become fully immersed into the Watchtower lifestyle as she believes that this is the only 'true' religion. Given the fact that she has both her mom and dad in it (along with several aunts and cousins), she feels right at home in the Watchtower organization. The fact that she is not baptized means that if she chooses to give it up now, she can at least know that her family will not shun her. Once she is baptized, there is no honorable way out (at least that is what I hear).

    I told her about 1914 and how it is based on 607 B.C.E. and how that date is not supported by the vast majority of other sources (scholar's 'celebrated WT scholar' sources not withstanding). I also told her about the 1874 teaching and even told her about the pyramidology and astrology that Charles Russell used to predict 1914. When she does 'research' about the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses, she consults the Proclaimers book alone. I think she does not like the fact that I am discovering all of this information as it could be upsetting her neat packaged theology.

  • avishai
    avishai

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/38146/1/Oregon-Lawsuit-News-Coverage

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/46670/1/UPDATE-Oregon-sex-abuse-case

    Tyler is my brother. Leanne Morley who is in some of Barbaras docs and was on CBS news is also a friend and was in the same cong. She has a gag order. But i sure don't!

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Thanks avashai,

    She may one day read 'apostate' material but I doubt that day will come anytime soon. I will definately keep your links handy when (or if) that day comes.

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers

    I'll gladly email or call your wife with what happened to me regarding child sex abuse and domestic violence. Also, just reading the court documents at www.watchtowerdocuments.com is a real eye opener.

    Have her watch the elder interview in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD4ISURP8M8

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