European Court: No Crucifixes in Italian Schools (page 2)

GromitSK

I don't think crucifixes in schools are a good idea. What's wrong with a cane or detention?

Perhaps the scotsman could explain how not allowing religious imagery in a secular classroom is discrimination. I would also think it wrong to have a darwin fish or an atheist 'A' symbol displayed. How is neutrality discrimination, after all, christians are at liberty to display their religious emblems in their homes or places of worship?

The victim mentality of christians is nauseating.

finallysomepride

Caedes Right On

hamilcarr

Because public schools are financed by the taxpayer, they should be neutral. Of course, parents are free to send their children to a private catholic school where the crucifix naturally can and will not be banned.

The Scotsman

""Perhaps the scotsman could explain how not allowing religious imagery in a secular classroom is discrimination"" Italy is a christian country - has been for many centuries. But now in the 21st century christianity can only be practised in private - is this what its coming to? Other countries are not christian - do they face the same restrictions in this matter - no they dont. "How is neutrality discrimination" How is preventing someone from displaying a cross in a public school (most pupils will be christian) neutral? It is the most basic of christian symbols I would guess that most in christian Italy quite like seeing it in public. Also - the cross is about Italians cultural identity - not just a religious identity. This case seems to cater to the minority - which is my main issue with this. The court seems to have taken this womans opinions and elevated them higher than anyone elses. Is this fair? "The victim mentality of christians is nauseating" This has nothing to do with being christian - it is about religious freedom. ALL religions. Why can't Italians live in there own country the way they want. What motivated a mother to go to court for 8 years on this subject - is it that big a deal. Why should her opinion carry so much weight? Where does it end - are churches offensive to atheists. Is Islamic traditional dress offensive to christians - a never ending stream of court cases could be on the horizon. I just think kids face bigger problems in school than 2 bits of wood stuck together.

Caedes

The court said secular, state-run schools must ''observe confessional neutrality in the context of public education,'' where attendance is compulsory.

Perhaps you didn't read the OP's linked article.

You don't seem to have answered the questions I asked, the fact that Italy is recently a christian country has nothing to do with the question. I am not arguing that christian symbols should be kept out, I am arguing that all religious symbols should be kept out of secular institutions like schools, courtrooms and libraries. How is that discrimination? Look up the definition of the word discrimination if you do not know what it means.

If you are serious about people's freedom of religion then that includes people's freedom to attend (compulsory) secular institutions without having religious imagery shoved down their throats. Freedom of religion is something I would defend absolutely (on a recent thread regarding a court case in Russia I argued that JWs should be free to worship without interference from the state http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/182509/1/Second-Russian-Court-Rules-Against-Jehovahs-Witnesses), that freedom should include a complete seperation of church and state since it defends the independence of both entities. I would have thought that the name scotsman would indicate you have an appreciation that Church of England protestants shouldn't decide what is appropriate for catholics just because there are more of them. That is the problem with the idea that a majority should have control over the religious choices of a minority, Suppose in a few years that the majority in this country became atheist would you accept that Darwin fish and atheist 'A's should be displayed in public schools? I don't because it would be dicriminatory to our hypothetical christian minority.

Removing all religious imagery from secular institutes is by far the safest course of action if you want to ensure complete religious freedom.

If it is just two bits of wood then removing it shouldn't be a problem!

PSacramento

I am not a big fun of crucifixs, crosses sure, but not crucifixs, I find them a tad morbid and typically they tend to give a false idea of what Jesus may have looked like.

That said if anyone wants to wear one, that is up to them.

However, it is not appropriate to put up one in a public facility, unless of course it is open to all religions to do so ( star of David, star of islam, etc)

Here we have catholic schools where parents that chose for kids to be exposed to the catholic faith can send them, they have cross and crucifixs and all that other stuff.

The public schools do not and rightly so.

behemot

The problem with Italy is that the Vatican considers the country as its courtyard and its feud, heavily interfering into the Italian affairs in ways that would be deemed unthinkable elsewhere and that are unacceptable for a democracy.

With the strong backing of the Right-wing government and its leader (Silvio Berlusconi) the Vatican and its new pope try to impose their ultra-conservative agenda on Italian civil society on issues like the teaching of Catholic religion in public schools, birth control, gay rights and the right to opt for a dignified death, to mention a few.

The Scotsman

"" If it is just two bits of wood then removing it shouldn't be a problem "" Works both ways my friend!!! "" That is the problem with the idea that a majority should have control over the religious choices of a minority "" Thats not my idea at all - anyone can worship anyway they like - but the minority or majority cannot decide for others. In other words - everyone tolerates everyone elses beliefs and manner of worship - or the fact that some choose not to worship. In this case the minority have attempted to enforce upon the majority - often it happens the other way round - neither works. Could this woman not just have accepted that people are different from her? In honesty I don't even like the cross but if a school in a christian country wants to put one on the wall - fair enough. Anyway - I was interested enough to post on this subject but I aint that interested! PSacramento - "unless of course it is open to all religions to do so ( star of David, star of islam") Could not agree more - all can worship anyway they feel. And if someones style of religious dress, or religious symbols etc offend you - dont be so touchy!

ninja

because....the old time religion is being forced out.....to make way for the new (old) earth worshipping religion disguised at the moment as environmentalism....they are busy brainwashing the kids at school as we speak....(the pesky little eco-warriors that our kids are becoming)the piscean age is over....no more fishes in the back of cars.....the aquarian age is here

altogether now....this is the dawning of the age of aquarius...aquarius......aquarius

European Court: No Crucifixes in Italian Schools

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