by possible-san 112 Replies latest watchtower bible
Mebaqqer2
The impression which you are going to give to people is unrelated for me.
An important thing is that I got to know your true character.
You at least are not a person whom I can respect.
Possibly former I respected you ...
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/162584/1/partial-translation-of-possible-sans-page
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/166872/1/J28-reference
When you were using only English, possibly I did not know.
Regrettable.
Here is where we are at:
Possible-kun has been using material that his friend (Mr. firisofa) makes to promote his own website:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/177825/1/PDF-the-Watchtower-August-15-2009
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/178911/2/The-Watchtower-September-15-2009-PDF
Notice there that possible-kun attacks Atlantis(!) for making the material public saying, "Well, I feel that this is meaningless that I said "PM", "e-mail", and "registration." If this PDF is opened to everybody, why am I urging "registration"? He also jumped on Switch for the same thing. When she said she had got it by E-mail, possible-kun asked, "Who is the person who sent e-mail to you? Shall I do so that he cannot access my forum because of your fault?" These discussions show that possible-kun's thinking has nothing to do with copyright and Japan, but rather
1. Possible-kun desires that the material only be made available from his BBS or through a channel of people he deems worthy based on his own subjective criteria of whether he likes you or not (think Jehovah's Witnesses' idea of "deserving ones").
2. Possible-kun demands that you thank Mr. firisofa who is the actual producer of the material.
I have already addressed how the idea of demanding people thank someone is condescending as I think most would unhesitantly do so even without prompting. Here let me just say that I doubt possible-kun will find few followers for his idea that material should only be distributed through channels he deems acceptable. I know this is an ad populum argument, but it cuts to the reason why material is distrubuted here in the first place. If possible-kun's interest is in helping others, then his concern should be on how he can help others in a way that is easiest for them. If possible-kun's intent is trying to draw attention to his BBS, then he would naturally choose a method that keeps him as the controller of the material and focuses attention there. Others on this board provide material in a spirit of help to their fellow person. As others have said they have not been thanked at times, but still they continue to provide more material without demanding people thank them. (I think we all agree that these these people should also be thanked as well). Like night and day the differences in motivation come through so clearly. This is why many have given possible-kun so much trouble.
People have said at times others need to remember that possible-kun comes from a different background. But if the roles were reversed does anyone think that Possible-kun would overlook anyone on his forum who acted in a manner that is outside of what is the norm in such a pushy way? I seriously doubt it. In fact, Japanese culture values "wa" (harmony) in which one does not push their own way and subjects themselves to the will of the group (as characterized in the expression ga o korosu, lit. to kill one's self [metaphorically]). This is also referred to as "shudanishiki" or group conscienceness which is a large part of Japanese culture and custom. Thus, it is possible-kun who is not acting within the cultural background he comes from when, coming here, he imposes on others a way which is abnormal to the forum at large. He is like the character Botchan created by the Japanese novelist Natsume Souseki who always argues for his own way in society and gets mad when people do not do as he wants. For Japanese, such a character imbodies the inverse of what it means to be an adult. In the same way, nobody should think that possible-kun reflects anything of Japanese culture through his self-centered instance to control and have his own way.
Finally, as possible-kun attests to himself with his urls to our previous conversations, we have had until now only good relations here. Whereas such a change would normally cause self-reflection as to why the change happened (i.e. Did I do something wrong?), possible-kun got mad and made vague references to my character based on what I said to him. Having translated our quick exchange, in which he was clearly rude, he attacked the translation itself as being in error. Yet when called on it, he merely reverted back to unsupported statements about my character. If he wants to base his dislike of me on the mere fact that I called him out on something that he has been doing for months and multiple people have told him was bad, so be it. I never tried to get the magazine from him or anyone, thus I have no personal investment in what I have been saying other than to admonish possible-kun's unharmonious way of being.
Mebaqqer
Mebaqqer
Although you have expressed your opinion, it is your own view.
That is not my opinion/view.
I think that the thought of "ga o korosu, lit. to kill one's self" is harmful.
That is the same as the thought of the Watch Tower basically.
In my opinion, probably, if he continues killing himself, he will become a "mental disease" (depression, neurosis, etc.).
Although Japanese people respect harmony with other people, they have his own thought/belief.
You must not force other people into your view.
I refuse to make into my view your view which does not respect others' opinion.
possible
http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/
P.S.
The Japanese word "kun" is a word disrespectful in a certain case.
In many cases, that is a word which the person of his superiors says.
Furthermore, he said to me, "impossible-kun."
If a certain permission is required in order to acquire some information, many people respect that.
In many forums and bulletin boards, you have to respect the administrator's view.
In here, we must not be obligated to provide unconditionally PDF with which we provide only special people in my forum.
You are going to get it without appreciation.
I express that, "He is impudent."
Should not you just make PDF?
Let’s take this line by line…
Possible-kun said:
Although you have expressed your opinion, it is your own view.
That is not my opinion/view.
What is not your view? The two points I mentioned? Let’s see…I said that:
1. Possible-kun desires that the material only be made available from his BBS or through a channel of people he deems worthy based on his own subjective criteria of whether he likes you or not (think Jehovah's Witnesses' idea of "deserving ones").
2. Possible-kun demands that you thank Mr. firisofa who is the actual producer of the material.
Let’s see what you yourself said:
Possible-kun (post 415, 5/4/2009) [emphasis mine]:
FYI, in my Japanese forum (only a registrant can look), the English Watchtower PDF (09 6/15) has uploaded.
…
Since I myself have not uploaded it, I cannot make the direct link to that file.
And probably, it will be deleted in several days, as usual.
Possible-kun (post 489, 6/28/2009) [emphasis mine]:
Now, in my Japanese forum, the Watchtower August 15, 2009 (PDF, 32MB) is downloadable.
But only a registrant can access.
- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/177825/1/PDF-the-Watchtower-August-15-2009
Possible-kun (post 554, 7/19/2009) [emphasis mine]:
Now, in my Japanese forum, the Watchtower September 15, 2009 (PDF, 33.8MB) is downloadable.
But only a registrant can access.
Possible-kun (post 556) [emphasis mine]:
That PDF is opened only to the registrant in my forum.
- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/178911/1/The-Watchtower-September-15-2009-PDF
The statement that the file was uploaded by someone else to your site so you’re not able to offer a direct link is strange to say the least. Even if it was, why is it impossible for you, the “possible” one, to upload it elsewhere and give acknowledgment to the file’s creator when informing people of where to download? This is what you would do if you were interested in providing the material for other people’s benefit. This is exactly what Atlantis does, even when he is not the creator of the material and the material is anonymous, and you say you appreciate it when you get it. But as evident by your statements above, your intent is to get people to register to your site.
This is further proved by your responses to those who have made your material available publically …
You attacked ynot when she made it available for other people’s benefit saying:
Possible-kun (post 447, 5/9/2009) [emphasis mine]:
Please do not provide the people here unconditionally with the materials obtained from my website/forum.
You attacked Atlantis (what!?) when he made it available for other people’s benefit saying:
Possible-kun (post 492, 6/28/2009) [emphasis and parenthesis mine]:
Well, I feel that this is meaningless that I said "PM", "e-mail", and "registration."
If this PDF is opened to everybody, why am I urging "registration"?
…
And you can provide with it the person who sends PM/e-mail to you (i.e. Atlantis).
Moreover, I said to Mr. Atlantis like this in e-mail.
You can share this file to other people. However, you can provide only for the person who does PM/e-mail to you.
You attacked Switch when she made it available for other people’s benefit saying:
Possible-kun (post 558, 7/20/2009) [emphasis and brackets mine]:
Who is the person who sent e-mail to you [with the material you uploaded]?
Shall I do so that he cannot access my forum because of your fault?
Again, all this points to your desire to have total control of the material by not only making it available through your website only but even trying to control the usage of the people you give it too!! Your intent in distribution is obviously not to benefit others. Why do you want to control who is able to get the material? Here is your reasoning given to MissingLink when he asked you why you do not upload materials somewhere and make them available publically:
Possible-kun (post 493, 6/29/2009):
Please read my remark of the following threads.
I do not forgive people without appreciation, and the person who makes a fool of others.
- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/177825/1/PDF-the-Watchtower-August-15-2009
It’s funny that although you yourself admit that you are not the producer of the material, nevertheless you feel its distribution should be based on your view of others. But what do the threads you produced show? On what basis are you deciding who is a “deserving one”? From the 4 threads you gave:
From http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/171940/1/March-15-2009-Watchtower-pdf we saw that passwordprotected had a slow download and asked if someone could upload it elsewhere. Possible-kun did and passwordprotected never responded in that thread making possible-kun sad.
From http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/174937/1/JW-only-Watchtowers-in-pdf-anyone-still-do-them we saw that possible-kun directed everyone to his site to register to his BBS and get material, but ynot made it available for download to anyone. Possible-kun attacked ynot on this by saying he doesn’t want people to “unconditionally” get this material and referred to another thread ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175232/3/Elimination-of-Jesus-from-Song-Book ) where Mr. middleman had told him “possible-san, now go back to your cage...........play time is over!!! While you're at it...no more flingy poo poo...” and from this possible-kun banned Mr. middleman from going to his BBS to download. Of course Mr. middleman was actually saying calm down and stop talking down to passwordprotected whom Possible-kun had originally attacked on his point about equality of honor to the Son and the Father. Possible-kun said, “I feel that your explanation looks stupid” and attacked passwordprotected on some perceived inconsistency in his argument here compared to earlier one that he had given that I do not care to go into. Point is, Possible-kun banned Mr. middleman from his magic downloads because Mr. middleman told him to stop talking down to people.
The third thread was already referred to in the second so from the last one http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/177937/12/Jesus-God-or-Gods-son we saw that possible-kun did not like reniaa or Spike Tassel’s statements. Reniaa had been talking about Jesus and his subordination to Jehovah and possible-kun jumped in saying, “Jesus is not YHWH as I explained repeatedly. Probably, the head will get confused if reniaa talks with people who say such” evidently in support of Reniaa. But then Reniaa and possible-kun part company because she follows Witness ideas and possible-kun seems to follow some kind of Trinitarianism (I say some kind since in this argument he does not apply the divine name to the entire Godhead as many Trinitarians would). They then get into arguments back and forth talking past each other when Spike Tassel jumps in ultimately leading to their still disagreeing. Point is, Possible-kun was unhappy that people didn’t agree with him.
So what do all these show? If someone doesn’t say thank you or disagrees with you, they are unworthy of the material your friend creates and uploads to your BBS so nobody should be putting the material from your friend produced out there. This is the opinion I had ascribed to you because of your own words. I do not see how I have misrepresented you in the least.
Let’s continue…
Possible-kun said:
I think that the thought of "ga o korosu, lit. to kill one's self" is harmful.
That is the same as the thought of the Watch Tower basically.
In my opinion, probably, if he continues killing himself, he will become a "mental disease" (depression, neurosis, etc.).
You should know that Japanese society is not asking you to be a robot. The idea of ga o korosu is that you have to know when to use honne (your true self) and when to use tatemae (the society face). When you are in the position of dealing with other people, you should know that you can’t always live by honne like Botchan. Ask yourself possible-kun, until now has your method been the most beneficial in helping people and received much praise or has your method caused people to be puzzled and unhappy with you? Think of this forum as society. You said:
Although Japanese people respect harmony with other people, they have his own thought/belief.
You must not force other people into your view.
If your way of making publications available is completely different than other people and causes so many problems everytime, then is it other people’s fault or your fault? It is fine to think whatever you want, but if the material is for other people then you have to think about other people’s opinion! If I was the only person talking to you about this, maybe you could think it is my problem, but I am not the only one.
Possible-kun said:
I refuse to make into my view your view which does not respect others' opinion.
My view respects the idea of the forum as a whole and thus EVERYONE’S opinion. Your view makes your material available only to those people you like and agree with. How is that thinking about and respecting other people?
Possible-kun said:
P.S.
The Japanese word "kun" is a word disrespectful in a certain case.
In many cases, that is a word which the person of his superiors says.
Furthermore, he said to me, "impossible-kun."
Yes, one should notice that instead of –san I have used –kun. Kun is similar in function to san except it is used to address those who are in relatively lower positions to the speaker. Whereas Westerners have a belief in egalitarianism which holds that all people in society should be valued as equals, Japanese believe in what is called tateshakai or a vertical society where everyone is ranked relative to each other based on age, profession, sex, knowledge, etc. In this context, kun is often used with shortened forms of boys names as a way for parents and teachers to address male children (-chan is for girls). Though it may also be used as a term in addressing good friends, it is the former meaning that is the meaning here. The reason for this usage is twofold, first, Possible himself speaks to people like they are children by talking down to them and telling them to say thank you even though everyone would already do so. He also acts like an amaenbo (spoiled child) and like Botchan does not know how to balance his inner self against the rest of society (other users of this forum). Thus, the usage of kun is entirely appropriate.
You also said:
If a certain permission is required in order to acquire some information, many people respect that.
Sure, some people do it because of necessity but I am sure they are not happy about it. Look at the people who have had hardship going to your site and registering. Look at the people who call your method a means to get people to “ass kiss” and “bow down” to you. Do you think they are really respectful of you even though they obeyed?
Possible-kun said:
In many forums and bulletin boards, you have to respect the administrator's view.
Yes, but you are in this forum where you are not an administrator and applying a standard for your material that is not followed by others in here. So yes, on your site do what you like. Here is not your site so abide by the group here and be harmonious. In here the majority of people want to help others with the material they provide and so take requests, (all to their own hardship) to make such material available to everyone. In fact, seeing such selflessness people are inspired to say “thank you” without being demanded.
Possible-kun said:
In here, we must not be obligated to provide unconditionally PDF with which we provide only special people in my forum.
You are going to get it without appreciation.
Again, this goes to the point: What is your motivation in providing the material? You say “special people.” We here do not make some people special and other people not. You are not obligated to provide things unconditionally, but not doing so shows disregard of your fellow posters. Kind of like bringing a bike on the train in Japan. No sign says “Do not bring bikes on the train,” but nobody does because they think about other passenger’s feelings. Same here. the purpose of the forum is to help others. If you motivation in providing things is not to help people unconditionally, then your attitude is problematic.
I express that, "He is impudent."
?
Should not you just make PDF?
I do not make PDFs because I am not a Witness, do not get their new publications, and am otherwise in no position to provide such material.
Mebaqqer
P.S. If you have anything further you shouls probably 1. Answer everything I have said until now rather than just answering a few things and 2. Talk on PM since nobody probably wants to hear us discuss this further.
Sorry for any spelling and/or grammatical errors or incomplete thoughts....
Talk on PM since nobody probably wants to hear us discuss this further.
I, for one, would rather hear the discussion.
Cheers
Chris
Well, I think that his writing expresses his character well.
It is very persistent. That arrogance and disrespectful attitude are shown vividly.
Originally, I do not speak English at all.
Therefore, it is difficult for me to express my thought correctly in English.
But probably he can speak English fluently.
Why do you want to control who is able to get the material?
I think that I explained it repeatedly. I have not made those materials (PDF's).
Basically, those PDF's is provided only in my forum.
If my friend wishes, he should always have provided in the forum here.
However, he has not done so.
And although you may not know, anyone has obtainedonly by registering those days.
There was no thought of "special people" in my head then.
Only by registering, anyone has obtained freely.
You did not need to receive from other people. The person who made those PDF's uploaded and you have obtained immediately. Therefore, I taught the people here that information.
Had I better not teach you that information?
This is the proof that you do not consider others' feelings or view. For me, being referred to as "Kun" from you is unpleasant. When you use that word, I feelyour "malice" and disrespect there. And you actually use in such a meaning.
Probably, I have explained this. (I have answered about this.)
I said, I do not need a negative comment like you.
Probably, you are interfering. I said, Why do you say haughty people (like you) nothing?...
...
Pardon.
I was tired with reading your writing.
Probably, when you express impudent opinions repeatedly, the people here will not get PDF.
You should recognize/notice that you are interfering.
P.S.
This forum changed my post.
Probably, it is an error.
Originally his writing is contained in the middle.
Since I was tired, I do not edit.
I think that people should respect "Copyright."
And I think that my friend has committed danger.
Therefore, I think that people should be thankful to him.
However, not in public but in secret.
There are people who probably understand what I have said.
Moreover, he is not obligated to make those PDF.
I have to protect my friend rather than the welfare of impolite people who are here.
Mebaqqer expresses himself very well and presents a picture of the Japanese people that closely describes the Japanese that I have met.
The statement " That arrogance and disrespectful attitude are shown vividly. " is completely without foundation.
Cheers
Chris
Black Sheep
People cannot receive PDF because of your fault.
Don't you know that?
Well, I do not judge the people of your country, looking at your speech and conduct.
All human beings are different one by one.You do not know that, either.
And I said that I do not need "negative comments."
Till when do you continue interfering?
P.S.
You should receive magazines from your relative and should provide everybody here with PDF.
That is not my job.
I will say "thank you" to you who provide PDF.
