What do you think the jw response would be if I asked if the Faithful&Discreet Slave is considered to mediate for jw's? Would they admit that?...or would they say that Jesus is? From what I've seen here, they seem to acknowledge that the Governing Body/FDS mediates. Right?
Jesus or Governing Body...Who's the Mediator?
by AwSnap 15 Replies latest watchtower bible
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PSacramento
Well, since the NT is only(mostly) for the annoited and not for the "peons" of Christianity, then 1Timothy 2:5 is only fro them, so according to the WT, Jesus is the mediator for only the annointed.
The problem is that in 1Timothy 2:5, the writer says:
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Which is also translated as:
God and people, the greek word for men being anthropos which means:
1) a human being, whether male or female
a) generically, to include all human individuals
b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1) of animals and plants
2) of from God and Christ
3) of the angels
c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin
d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman
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PSacramento
Also note that the writer mentions before verse 5:
1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone- 1Ti 2:2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 1Ti 2:3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 1Ti 2:4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, -
carla
I think a jw has some fuzzy idea that they need the gov body to be their mediator to Jesus who then mediates somehow for the gb in which the r & f benefit as long as they remain devoted to the gb. It is only the jw's themselves that do not realize they actually worship men and pin their salvation upon men.
Jesus mediates for gb
gb mediates for r & f
r & f have some sort of special mediation powers because if you have jw relatives they think that if they are 'good' enough and work hard enough maybe just maybe by some slim chance you will be saved at the big A by their works today because jah added up their brownie points and will give them a freebie. That's how I see it.
This is where jw's look so deceptive to outsiders who know a little about jw's. A r & f can in fact agree with the Christian at the door that 'yes, we believe Jesus is our mediator' yet the average door does not realize the 3 tiered system of jw's and salvation.
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tjlibre
Many JW are not aware of this doctrine. I’m almost sure that if you ask this question to the average witness they’ll say Jesus is our mediator. Keep in mind that this teaching is not frequently mentioned in the WT literature. I think that only the “old timers” are more familiar with this.
I found a very revealing comment of 1 Tim 2:5 in Wesley’s Notes.
2:5 For - The fourth verse is proved by the fifth; the first, by the fourth. There is one God - And they who have not him, through the one Mediator, have no God. One mediator also - We could not rejoice that there is a God, were there not a mediator also; one who stands between God and men, to reconcile man to God, and to transact the whole affair of our salvation. This excludes all other mediators, as saints and angels, whom the Papists [Governing Body] set up and idolatrously worship as such: just as the heathens of old set up many mediators, to pacify their superior gods. The man - Therefore all men are to apply to this mediator, who gave himself for all.
In essence, the GB is setting themselves above Christ and can be rightfully accused of promoting idolatry.
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blondie
God
Jesus
144,000, anointed, remnant
All other jws
Here are some quotes that show that everything comes to the anointed through Jesus, then to the rest, specifically now the GB representing the anointed
** w07 1/15 p. 10 Highlights From the Book of Isaiah—II ***To close our eyes to God’s written Word and to shut our ears to his instruction through "the faithful and discreet slave" is to become spiritually blind and deaf.
*** w97 3/15 pp. 15-16 par. 16 Incline Your Heart to Discernment ***Only spiritual discernment, developed by a study of God’s Word with the help of publications provided through "the faithful and discreet slave," will help us to pursue a proper course in life
*** w94 10/1 p. 8 The Bible—A Book Meant to Be Understood ***All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.—John 6:68.
*** w60 7/15 p. 443 par. 14 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***When we have been brought into the New World society we are determined to do the divine will. The divine will flows to us only theocratically through God’s provided leadership of the "faithful and discreet slave."
*** w57 5/1 p. 281 par. 7 Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers ***Respect for Jehovah’s organization means to trust our proved, faithful brothers. These are the ones who through much hardship and experience have demonstrated that the spirit of God is with them. The rich blessing that has been poured out upon the visible organization is evidence that the governing body and those who represent it are deserving of our full support and trust. This we can demonstrate only by accepting every provision as coming from the Lord through the "faithful and discreet slave."
*** w01 7/15 p. 16 par. 6 Press On in the Harvest Work! ***Jehovah thus uses Jesus to direct the harvest work through the heavenly angels and the anointed "faithful and discreet slave" here on the earth.
*** w01 8/1 p. 14 par. 8 Make Your Advancement Manifest ***Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave."
*** w01 11/1 pp. 28-29 "The Blessing of Jehovah—That Is What Makes Rich" ***Through Jesus Christ and "the faithful and discreet slave," Jehovah has provided a bountiful supply of spiritual food that helps us to remain on "the road leading off into life."
*** w92 3/1 p. 20 The Day to Remember ***Under theocratic organization a vast worldwide spiritual building program has gathered more than four million of the great crowd. Like the queen of Sheba, these have come from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of the Greater Solomon, Christ Jesus—channeled to them through "the faithful and discreet slave."—Matthew 24:45-47.
*** w90 10/1 p. 30 Do You Follow Instructions? ***We should follow the instructions that the Head of the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ, gives through "the faithful and discreet slave," the appointed channel of God’s organization here on earth.
*** w84 2/1 p. 23 par. 9 ‘Oneness of Spirit’ in a Rapidly Growing Flock ***In modern times, Jehovah has continued to provide needed help for his servants, doing so through "the faithful and discreet slave," the remnant on earth today, of which Jesus is the appointed head, and this help comes at just the right time.
*** w84 7/1 p. 9 par. 4 Facing This Age of Violence With Confidence ***Its prophetic meaning is made known to us through "the faithful and discreet slave," that group of anointed Christians whom the Master, Jesus Christ, is using now to provide spiritual "food at the proper time" for all of God’s people."
*** w82 6/1 p. 17 par. 5 Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order ***How vital it is for everyone in God’s family to submit loyally to the teachings and arrangements of the Great Theocrat, Jehovah, and his King-Son, Christ Jesus, as transmitted through the ‘faithful slave’ on earth!
*** w58 3/15 p. 177 par. 5 Shepherd of Israel ***In these last days the Great Shepherd, by the hand of the Right Shepherd, Christ Jesus, and operating through his "faithful and discreet slave" class, has led his spiritual flock out of antitypical Egypt, the modern world
*** km 5/86 p. 8 Question Box ***Additionally, as disciples of Jesus Christ, they recognize Jehovah’s visible organization and the authority of Jesus Christ as exercised through "the faithful and discreet slave."
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sacolton
Simple answer:
The mediator for the Jehovah's Witness R&F are the dead 144,000 anointed. Not Jesus.
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leftbelow
You will never get a JW to say that out loud. I gave public talks and went to Bethel served in just about every position in the the congo. And I always told people at the door that Jesus was our mediator. I never read that Jesus was not my mediator (according to the WTBTS) until I already had doubts about the WT being Gods "channel" to truth.
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wobble
You naughty boy, Leftbelow, you knew all along that "Insight on the Scriptures " Vol. 2 page 362 para 7 says :
"While Jesus' mediatorship operates solely toward those in the new covenant ....... "
and yet you strung those poor members of the public along.
At least most Dubs do it in ignorance, even my super- Dub sister, 65 yrs a Dub, Reg Pio in the past, didn't know this teaching !
Of course it is the opposite of what the scriptures say, as is usual for Dub doctrine.
Love
Wobble
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No Longer Held Captive
Yeah, they believe all this self anointed slave tells them. and he has such a close relationship with christ that he always gets new light on matters, and through this slave, christ and jehovah tell us, "sorry folks, but we got it wrong the last time, but now we have it right, and any new changes, then we will let you know........and by the way, for good measure, to show your undying loyalty, no more holding hands in the congregation..ok, and those apostates exposing all the loop holes of our teachings on jwn and other boards, fuck them, they are getting destroyed, so no more out of curiosity visiting those websites to see all the false stuff we tell you"?
Just looking a little more closely and really reading what the bible says on these matters would free these poor people from that vice like grip....and the dubs seem to have forgotton christ and jehovah, and in their place, their own laws and decrees, which we can read in their secret elders handbook, and now this self appointed slave has elevated himself, but he will fall, and as jesus said, 'the blind follow the blind, but they will all follow in the same hole".
I think if you did follow this self appointed faithful slave, then you really would be blind to Gods word and his will. Jesus spoke of how the pharisees traversed land and sea to make converts, and when they did, then they make them twice as much a subject for gehenna. This is certainly something to think about when we consider what this faithful slave tells us, and would christ really act in this fashion.
Even in shepherding calls, and judicial committees they pull out the watchtower and say, "look here at what the faithful slave says", never do they go to the bible and use what God says, and if the do, then its of course very selective to suit their teaching.
But, if christ is mediator, then why would mankind need someone else?
