Does God believe in burning People?

by ssn587 38 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    There seems to be a broad enough consensus among scholars regarding the phrase "burnt with fire" They broadly suggest that the "burning" actually referred to the bodies of the those people who had committed this form of incest. The mode of execution in OT times seems confined to stoning, but whereas most others were later entombed, the incestuous sinners had their carcasses burnt. It appears that such burning signified the impossibility of a comfortable afterlife. [See Wycliffe, Henry, Clarke, Keil and Delitzsch, etc]

    However there are other views:

    1 Clarke [OT Commentary] suggests that this "burning" was in fact a branding with a hot iron to remind both the perpetrators as well the general populace of this particular sin.

    2 A particularly gruesome interpretation is provided by the Jewish Targum of Jonathan. It is here suggested that this "burning" involved having molten lead poured down the throats of the guilty ones.

  • No Longer Held Captive
    No Longer Held Captive

    Yeah, you must do all the big guy says, and when, if not, you are going down into that eternal fire, where there is molten brimstone, and where worms eat you up from the inside, and you will suffer this for an eternity-But, he also loves you.

    The big guy, as powerful, and all knowing he may be, he has a problem with money, he always needs money, and can never get enough of it.

    The above was on the zeitgeist movie and was so funny, but it shows the hypocrisy of religion, which in Rutherfords own words were "A racket and a snare".

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    On the question of this topic "Does God believe in burning People?" I feel it would actually be better to pose another.

    Does God wish people anyone to go to the second death?

    English Standard Version (ESV)
    Ezekiel 18:32

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    32 (A) For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; (B) so turn, and live."

    Cross references:
    1. Ezekiel 18:32 : Ezekiel 18:23
    2. Ezekiel 18:32 : Ezekiel 18:30

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

    Ezekiel 33:11

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    11 Say to them, (A) As I live, declares the Lord GOD, (B) I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; (C) turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

    Cross references:
    1. Ezekiel 33:11 : Ezekiel 16:48
    2. Ezekiel 33:11 : Ezekiel 18:23
    3. Ezekiel 33:11 : Ezekiel 18:31

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

    1 Timothy 2:4

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    4 who desires (A) all people to be saved and (B) to come to (C) the knowledge of the truth.

    Cross references:
    1. 1 Timothy 2:4 : 1 Timothy 4:10; Ezek 18:23, 32
    2. 1 Timothy 2:4 : 2 Tim 3:7
    3. 1 Timothy 2:4 : 2 Tim 2:25; Titus 1:1; Heb 10:26

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

    1 Timothy 2:6

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    6 (A) who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is (B) the testimony given (C) at the proper time.

    Cross references:
    1. 1 Timothy 2:6 : Matt 20:28
    2. 1 Timothy 2:6 : 1 Cor 1:6
    3. 1 Timothy 2:6 : 1 Timothy 6:15; Titus 1:3; Gal 4:4

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

    2 Peter 3:9

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    9 (A) The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise (B) as some count slowness, but (C) is patient toward you, [a] (D) not wishing that any should perish, but (E) that all should reach repentance.

    Footnotes:
    1. 2 Peter 3:9 Some manuscripts on your account
    Cross references:
    1. 2 Peter 3:9 : Hab 2:3; Heb 10:37
    2. 2 Peter 3:9 : Eccles 8:11; Rev 2:21
    3. 2 Peter 3:9 : Isa 30:18; Luke 18:7
    4. 2 Peter 3:9 : Ezek 18:23, 32; 33:11
    5. 2 Peter 3:9 : 1 Tim 2:4

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

    Titus 2:11

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    11 For (A) the grace of God (B) has appeared, bringing salvation (C) for all people,

    Cross references:
    1. Titus 2:11 : Titus 3:7; Acts 11:23
    2. Titus 2:11 : Titus 3:4
    3. Titus 2:11 : Psalm 67:2; 1 Tim 2:4

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • designs
    designs

    The Literalists and their concept-

    Love me or I will burn you for all eternity...

    Its a Cult far worse than we knew as jws.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    sir82,

    Gnoticism is all fine and dandy, just not my cup of tea :)

    design,

    The issue of the new covenant has divided (somewhat) some parts of CHristianity, certainly the JW's seem to prefer to OC to the NC, they themselves use the erroneous term "Jehovah" so as to show their preferences of association with the OT and the OC over the NT and the NC.

    For many, the "law" of the OC is far easier to follow than the personal respobsibility of faith in the NC.

    In regards to whether or not "brunt" was a literal buring or not, I am sure to those that WERE burnt as heretics that argument is moot.

    When a scrib writes a Law he KNOWS very well it will be take as literal.

  • glenster
    glenster

    Another site about some of the verses brought up:
    http://www.rationalchristianity.net/human_sacrifice.html

    Some editorials about God of the OT, as though He didn't create everything so
    own everything and all life and have His prerogative about it all, as though He
    didn't provide life but just takes it from equal quality beings without the
    prerogative that gives Him the right and is just evil, should be qualified in a
    few ways or they don't reject the concept but misunderstand it as though about a
    king, which is very different in several important ways. God and stories about
    Him in the OT are a faith concerns you could accept or reject anyway, but some
    seem to reject a straw God that nobody had in mind.

    The OT stories have it that God was making divine interventions seeing who
    would abide an apparent giver and taker of all life. Without repeating long ex-
    planations, a few things should be a part of the characterization (God's prer-
    ogative, to be credible He can't be all beneficent or nobody would die or have
    anything less than heavenly circumstances; people aren't all-beneficent, either;
    a qualified analogy between God > people/people > animals; that the best you can
    do is look at life and its hardships like Job and be glad for what life you got
    and what good you found in it, etc.).

    Some seem to take the dark side of God's prerogative as though all there was
    to know about a human, which would mischaracterize the human let alone the God
    concept. It can make for a creative pessimistic story by Mark Twain, but I'd
    see it in that perspective as such.

    Accusations that He's to be seen as a human king, an equal quality being
    without God's prerogative, a king who didn't give them life but kills equal
    quality beings, and there's nothing else to the concept, (add that people
    aren't all-beneficent to equal quality human beings let alone animals, so who's
    kidding who about who God is regarding?--Mark wasn't foolishly optimistic about
    them, either...), misunderstand the concept instead of editorializing about it.

    It progresses in the NT to something more like separation of church and state.
    There's no need for a country with a belief or non-belief stance as the law of
    the land, etc. (For balance, people have been hurt or killed due to a non-be-
    lief law of the land, too.) I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt or killed over
    such stuff short of a divine intervention, and I haven't seen one. That isn't
    to say I'd reject God as though He were just a murderous king if it happened.

    To simplify the God concept to a human king may make it easier to understand,
    but you can simplify a thing into a distortion which is easier to remember but
    since it's a distortion it isn't worth remembering.

  • glenster
    glenster

    A lot of the criticism aimed at God leaves out what the people are like, as if
    they're so selflessly good with their free will that He doesn't have the right
    to do anything to spoil their perfection. We know God can't be all-beneficent,
    but people are in the see-able, touchable range, so we ought to know they
    aren't, either.

    Think of the God > people/people > animals analogy again and imagine the
    criticism warranted for the bad human behavior of believers and non-believers
    described at the 1st big batches of links on p.43 at the next link (and there's
    enough in various categories beyond that to fill pages with links).
    http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id58.html

    A person could get pretty cynical about what the bad behavior of a lot of
    people seems like to them (Mark Twain joked that they're less than animals--"The
    Reasoning Animal"). And that's to an equal quality being--imagine how it must
    look to a much higher quality being. We might debate about when a person has
    the right to use a weapon on an equal quality being, but He's in a position to
    pull the plug on anyone with impunity and you don't think He should because
    people are too good? Me, you, and Mark Twain are allowed to get cynical about
    people and God can't? Why--He's some kind of omnipotent moron? I'd figure it
    was a concept of an airhead if He couldn't.

    You don't feel there's been a fair trial till you've looked at it from both
    sides before rendering judgment.

    Imagine it the other way around, from the view of the God of the God concept.
    He gives everyone life, and what do they do for Him?--ruin the Earth with global
    warming to what could be within a century of mortal destruction. He may be
    amused to think that He doesn't need to create an Armageddon--they're hell-bent
    on taking out everyone, good or bad, on their own and saving Him the trouble.

    A person may eat hamburger, never rescue an animal from a pound, medical lab,
    or the farm of a food processing plant, never keep a pet in their house let
    alone house a vagrant, yet they think they're a nice person and others think
    they are, too--they think it's that person's prerogative. But the same person
    insists God has to want every lesser being like themself live forever in His
    house--why? You wouldn't, and neither would I. Think about some of those peo-
    ple you'd have to have around forever you wouldn't want to spend a minute with,
    and they're equal quality beings. (That's why I wrote in an earlier post that
    He'd want to change the name of the place to Hell.)

    Plug it into the analogy. A guy has a ranch. The brown cows are killing the
    yellow cows are killing the the white cows are killing the cows that go "Moo"
    are killing the cows that don't go "Moo"--they just shake those bells around
    their necks. And a guy goes by the ranch and says, "That rancher is no good to
    me--I wouldn't believe in him unless he had all those cows live in his house."
    (Notice at this juncture that guy sounds like a moron.) And the rancher is
    thinking, "That's unfortunate, because I was thinking a hamburger would go good
    about now." Of course, he'd kill it before he cooked it. And that's how it
    works. It's something like that.

    When you think of the God of the Bible, imagine how that analogy works back
    and forth, not just one way, and sometimes it can help you get the intended
    idea.

  • DrJohnStMark
    DrJohnStMark

    You are surely overstating things by saying YHWH was the most cruel god.

    It's been stated somewhere in WT literature that the gods of other nations were much less perfect in their ways (more like imperfect humans) and less omniscient (almost as helpless like us) than YHWH. If that is true, then YHWH would be one of the most cruel gods.

    You would not call a lion killing a zebra cruel, but seeing killer whales have fun with sea lions might make you wonder. The notion of cruelty somehow correlates with intelligence and other capacities.

    In the human world just turning your back and leaving someone to suffer and die if you could help him is considered to be cruel... how about in the world of gods?

  • The Almighty Homer
    The Almighty Homer

    An abbreviated answer to the original question is yes, added too, have men burned people for the sake of their select gods ?

    and the answer again is yes. This includes devoted Christians by the way.

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