Thanks for the help with the quote feature Frankie :)
Intellects do not believe in God
by garyneal 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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VoidEater
I will have faith in God when He speaks.
Until then, don't ask me to have faith in what someone thinks God meant when someone else thought they heard God say something.
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PSacramento
I will have faith in God when He speaks.
Until then, don't ask me to have faith in what someone thinks God meant when someone else thought they heard God say something.
You make a valid point and one that more people should follow, in the sense of not allowing others to lead them by THEIR views and interpretations.
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frankiespeakin
Sac,
That may be the case for some, but not for all, I myself was not brought up in a strict belief system, before my folks became JW's they were very lackdaisacal RC's and I was not religious at all.
Actually your up bringing was similar to mine mother a RC, dad a protestant both not very religious church goers but they sent me to church and religious classes till I made my confirmation(12 yrs old),, even though they didn't go except on rare occasions and I was not all that religious either,, still the indoctrination I received had a big impact on my outlook or world view,, and thinking ability. Which left me vulnerable to the JW BS.
Don't under estimate how these things can influence you later on and make you believe things that aren't true or have no basis in fact.
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jonathan dough
I will have faith in God when He speaks.
he did, in the Bible.
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GromitSK
Is this the same Bible that has chunks missing in the Hebrew section as evinced by references to stories and characters which do not appear anywhere and which encourages slaughter, war, rape, sex with elderly relatives and talking snakes? Not to mention a bunch of writings in the latter part decided by a committee controlled by the Roman Empire? If this is really God talking I would have expected something a bit more coherent.
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dgp
My two cents.
Gary, that was no red herring your wife threw at you. She was clever. First, she put you on the defensive, by implying that you would irrationally refuse to believe the most evident things even if they were right before your eyes. Next she spoke about the Watchtower's blood policy. She conceded "defeat" in the first issue only to "win" in the second. She wanted you to think you were irrational because you won't accept the bloody blood policy.
She also tried to convince you NOT to do your research and be credulous.
I would suggest that you see these kind of comments by your wife as an opportunity to learn. She is providing you with more and more insight into what she thinks. Use that to reflect on your own beliefs.
I am deeply convinced that you can't have true faith unless you also use your intellect. Blind faith is not the mark of the true believer, but the mark of the submissive, the one who wants everthing spelled out. The one who is willing to give up his independence in exchange for "safety".
I think most people who follow a religion do so because they were born in it. In this, I am including the Jehova's witnesses. Parents impose their beliefs on children under the assumption that it is a good thing. Children believe what they are told to believe. Someone who never questions the faith he or she received this way has never really had faith, but has limited himself to going with the crowd.
To have faith, you need to take the proverbial "leap". That means that, at some point, intellect alone won't be enough. Many religious people act out of bad faith when they question someone who can't take that leap. If someone can't believe as they do, it's not that they refuse to believe. It's that they don't believe, simply. What you believe shouldn't be under your control. If I can control my mind and make believe that I believe that something that looks green is red, only because my organization says so, what kind of a faith is that, really? If true belief isn't something you control, but something you just feel, why should they hold it against you?
And then, the more you do research into the evil that religious fanaticism has brought into this world, the more you feel like not being religious. The Watchtower is a good example of that. So many people hurting and dying in vain. If the Governing Body really thought that evil ones will be killed at Armageddon, would they do what they do?
I can call it faith after you have done all of your research and independent thinking, yet you decide that something they tell you is true, even though no tangible proof of it exists. If you can believe that the hick son of a carpenter who hung out with prostitutes and lowlives, had twelve bums with him all the time, did not follow the law and was crucified did indeed rise from the grave, then you have faith.
If your faith is true, it will withstand any analysis of it.
Keep going, Gary.
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The Almighty Homer
Intellects choose the rationality of reality over the irrationality of belief and superstitions
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GLTirebiter
"You don't just accept it and have faith in God, you want to look into it with the intent of disproving it in some way."
It's not just WT teachings, I will examine any "facts" that way before I accept them, and will re-examine them when doubts arise. Religion, politics, economics, whatever. My Dad told me to "Believe nothing that you hear, and only half of what you see."
Studying math and science taught me to be skeptical not only about what is new to me, but especially about those things that I think I know. If you think you have a simple answer, it's more likely that you don't appreciate the entire problem. When things don't make sense, re-evaluate the assumptions that came before them. The hardest problems to solve are the ones where we think we know the answer, but don't. As the comedy group I lifted my screen name from said, "Everything you know--is wrong!
GLT
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garyneal
Okay, I am going to lay some deep crap on you all since the direction of this thread seems to be going in either direction (depending on who is doing the commenting).
I first got my 'indoctrination' of religion (well my true indoctrination) at an independent fundamental baptist church. I was brought into this church by my step-dad's brother at a time when I was truly looking to be around nice, moral people and at the same time looking for answers to my spiritual questions. Frankly, looking back and talking with my mother-in-law over the holiday weekend, I found how eerily similar my life was compared to my mother-in-law's in terms of how we became 'religious' if you will. Had my mom's cousins invited me to the local Kingdom Hall instead of my step-dad's brother inviting me to his church, there is a strong (very strong) possibility that I would've became a witness at the time.
I've pondered what my life would've been like had I become a witness. All I can say is that I would've probably been out eventually and very bitter if my experiences at the KH paralleled in any way my experiences at that old church. Since that path was never put before me, I never took it so I will never know. I do remember, though, someone (actually several people) of my old church telling me that JW is a false religion. The people at this church were ultra conservative, gun toting, republicans (at least that is how they appeared) who shunned all forms of life styles except the 'little house on the prairie' 19th century amish type of lifestyle. I also found them to be very hypocritical, shouting amen to the pastor while he delivered his sermons recommending that no one works on Sunday's and Wednesday nights only to get in the car and go to the grocery store immediately after church. My 'cognitive dissonance' if you will began.