UN scandal

by inbetween 46 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  inbetween

  Lately I did a lot of reading regarding the UN scandal, the org being a NGO for 10 years

  I tried to read both sides, the comments on JWfacts.com, as well as the defense at jehovahsjudgment.co.uk.

  and then the endless discussion on topix.com between thirdwitness and alanF and others.

  While I am sure, the way the org handled the whole situation, especially after the article in the guardian, was plain wrong, instead of openly confessing a mistake, it was done secretely and only after inquiry, and made it look like a cover-up.

  However, considering the whole issue, I think it comes down to one question:

  let me explain:

  Acc. to our interpretation of the bible, in the future God will destroy false relgion, governments and the wild beast (UN)

  so all those institutions will be enemies of God.

  Jesus told his followers to be no part of the world, however, he does not take them from the world, so this means, Christians have to have cetrain dealings with the world and all its institutions.

  The question is: How far can these dealings go, without being defiled by the world ?

  or on other words: To what extent can a Christian be involved in worldy affairs, and at the same time supporting the kingdom ?

  I will look at some areas, 1th century, and today, how things concerning this world are handled:

  1) first Christians:

  Paul explained in Romans 13, that Christíans have to obey the superior authorities (pay taxes, etc)

  Paul also gave the example of establishing legally the good news, he made use of the legal system of the Roman world.

  He appealed to caesar for example. He enjoyed protection from Roman soldiers. He repsected people in authority.

  However, he stayed neutral in political affairs.

  2) Today,

  Christians pay their taxes, even benefit from governmental programs.

  Some Christians work for the government, end this may require of them, to pledge support of some sort, even give an oath or simlar things.

  They will not participate actively in politics though.

  Same with false religion, while not suppirting false worship, some may have no objection in visiting churches, even to pay for entrance , knowing their money may be used to upkeep the pagan buildings.

  They say: I do not support false worship, I just make business, I want something from them (visit a church, buy some itmes) , so I give in exchange. Its business, not support.

  So here it comes to the affiliation with the UN:

  Was it wrong for the WTS to become an NGO, in order to benefit from UN (maybe not the stupid library argument, but maybe to help legally establish the good news )

  Does it mean, the WTS supported the political course of the UN, or was it just a "bunsiness deal", like I give something for gettiung soemthing ?

  Like somebody benefits from governmental programs, even though all the governments are in satans hand ?

  I am not an apologist, I just try to put things in the right perspective.

  Sure, there is lot of discussion, how much support for the UN was required from the WTS to become an NGO. After reading hours of material from both sides, the whole issue is rather a bit blurry.

  Or should we ask another question: Is becoming an NGO associating with the UN one of the ways to legally establish the good news ?(like Pauls example, this may include "friendly" terms with Satans organisation) or is it friendship with this world, that is condemned in Gods word ?

  Just some thoughts, maybe I am completely on the wrong track, so please share your ideas.

  I am open for any correction, and welcome any input.
• 

  alanv

  The point is, you can't have it both ways. The WT is scathing about any other religon that has any slight contact with a political org. Therefore it must be the same itself. It should be keeping even further away if it is as it claims the true religon. They were caught and once they were, they pretended they new nothing about agreeing to the U N terms. They have proved to be hypocritical in so many other things it should surprise no one that they were the same with the U N situation
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  Black Sheep

  The apologists have you confused and have led you off topic.

  All JWs are artists at this stuff. They are taught it from birth.

  They never answer any question that they don't like. What they do is divert your attention. This works on any subject. They will say a lot of stuff that is related to the question, but doesn't actually answer it. E.g. Ask a JW to draw you up a list of kings of Babylon and they will want to discuss all of the reasons why they believe that Jerusalem fell in 607 without discussing the question you asked. Ask a JW to explain John 20:28 and they will want to discuss all of the reasons why they don't believe the Trinity without discussing any of the problems with John 20:28.

  Like Alanv said, the WT slagged off other religions for actions that it then took itself. It is proveable and publically admitted by them. All of that 'reasoning' by the apologists for that behaviour is just to distract you from that.

  Hours and hours of drivel to distract the questioner from the issue, and it often works. That is why they do it. When it doesn't work they resort to character assassination.

  If you want to really piss off a JW, keep them on topic. Don't let yourself get distracted. Pick a question and nail their feet to the floor and make them confront it.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  Gordy

  I think it comes down to the hypocrisy of the Watchtower.

  That over the years their publications and teachings were constantly condemning the UN as the "wild beast" and ANY dealings with it were not to done. To be an UN NGO you have to agree to uphold the Charter of the United Nations.

  They would condemn JWs, even have them before a judicial committee for have joined the YMCA , just to use their gym or swimming pool.
  Is that any different from signing up to the UN for a "library card" ?

  I have read of a brother who worked for Coca-Cola, one of the places he delivered to was an army base. He was told that he could not do that as it was "supporting" the military. Another brother who worked for a building firm, was told he could not work doing repairs on a church the building firm was on.

  Many JWs were shocked, and a few did leave, they felt decieved.

  I had just left when the scandal broke, even I was shocked.

  For 30 years I was told that the UN was "Satans organisation" don't go anywhere near it.

  Its nothing to do with what 1st century Christian did, or what Romans says.

  Its everything to do with the deception and hypocrisy of the Watchtower over a 10 year period.
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  cantleave

  In JW land if wanted to work as a researcher for a Political party, it would be seen as a compromise on my Christain neutrality. If I was working in an administrative role within the military, it would be seen as an innappropriate occupation. If I even undertook building work in a church, It would be seen that I was not fleeing from Babylon the Great, or as Ray Franz points ot in CofC even delivering Coca Cola to a military base is considered supporting the world of Satan. The point is all these situations would result in strong counsel , loss of priviledges and would indicate that I am not "sound of mind", a lack of judgement on my part, because I have compromised my standing in the congregation. To do anything that supports the wild beast would be inappropriate. EXCEPT if I am the WTS where the rules don't apply. It is sheer hypocrasy.
• 

  finallysomepride

  On Sundays I went to KH

  Mondays I delivered paint to Whenuapai Air Base

  OK it's a little off topic I know LOL
• 

  inbetween

  alanv: yes, no doubt, this was hypocritical behaviour, because they accuse other religions from doing what they end up doing, but the main question is: Is it wrong from a biblical standpoint (acc. to WTS teaching) to become a NGO associating with the UN?

  Black sheep: I think, that was partially the problem contributing to the confusion, "red hering" and "strawman" tactics...

  Gordy: Good point with YMCA, I guess here in Europe we have no expereince with this group, so I was not aware of any issues,

  cantleave: I guess, in real life are many gray areas, the failure of the WTS is to try to regulate all this gray areas for the rank and file, but for themselves they take the freedom to do whatever pleases their purpose.
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  edmond dantes

  The Watchtower had their own top echelon brothers working with U.N . groupings with the objective , probably, of spreading more of the Watchtower false doctrine. In other words they needed to sell more books and magazines all over the World thereby increasing their vast revenue stream.

  The point is that World Governments and the U.N. were designated by the Witnesses to be part of the Devil's organisation. Now if you climb into bed with the Whore of Babylon i.e. sit on a U.N. committee and Armageddon strikes then the people aligned with the U.N. are going to get zapped. In other words Witnesses are going to be destroyed during the final mega onslaught.

  All this proves is that the Watchtower, for most of it's history, has written reams and reams of hogwash.They never fail to trip themselves up by their twisting lies. I just wonder if they will ever make sense because they have had a hundred years of practicing religion and getting it spectaculary wrong.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Here is what offended me.

  In the 1970's, Malawai went after JW's for failure to carry a political card. Mind you, that government was the only political party. It was akin to carrying a drivers license. In any case, because the government insisted, the GB made it a matter of loyalty and neutrality. They didn't suggest that they refuse these cards, they taught that they shouldn't. As a result, thousands were beaten, raped, imprisoned, and murdered.

  Other examples of this could be mentioned. (i.e. stay neutral in government and politics)

  IF you insist on that kind of loyalty, then you better act it yourself. The GB teaches all the time to get out of Babylon the Great, to have nothing to do with this world, to be neutral, even under pain of death, calling it persecution.

  So when you find out that they have been in association with a worldly political organization that the GB describes as a prophetic wild beast in the book of Revelation, and that they do so as a matter of their own convenience, then it makes them hypocrites with blood on their hands.

  They were morally obligated to avoid anything having to do with the UN, seeing as they preached others to their death as a matter of principle. Thus, as a matter of principle, they should have nothing to do with the UN, regardless of whether it made it more difficult for them to do business. Surely, Jehovah would find a way and reward them for following their own teachings?

  Unless.......
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  AwSnap

  *marked to read later*