by Mad Sweeney 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
If yhwh needed to experience carnality and death to get mellowed out, what does that say about his original state? Supposedly, he's unchanging, perfect, omniscient, eternal, everpatient, and the epitomy of love. If he was already all that, how could he possibly be improved on? Snowy, are you entertaining the thought that yhwh was not the real god, merely a lower level character? That would put you in the gnostic camp.
S
That leaves even less room for such a drastic personality change.
W
The Apostle Paul explained what happened much, much better than I could ever do so.
Philippians 2:5 -8 Think of yourselves the way Christ Jesus thought of himself. He had equal status with God but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status no matter what. Not at all. When the time came, he set aside the privileges of deity and took on the status of a slave, became human!Having become human, he stayed human. It was an incredibly humbling process. He didn't claim special privileges. Instead, he lived a selfless, obedient life and then died a selfless, obedient death—and the worst kind of death at that—a crucifixion.
9 -11 Because of that obedience, God lifted him high and honored him far beyond anyone or anything, ever, so that all created beings in heaven and on earth—even those long ago dead and buried—will bow in worship before this Jesus Christ, and call out in praise that he is the Master of all, to the glorious honor of God the Father. MSG
The OT God is certainly a kick-butt God, but you can see facets of that in the Son when He singlehandedly took on the Jewish hierarchy.
Sylvia
Snowy, are you entertaining the thought that yhwh was not the real god, merely a lower level character? That would put you in the gnostic camp.
S
Oh, I definitely believe YHWH is the real God - just not the Father.
I believe He is the Creator - just not the Father.
My humble belief is that the Father kept Himself in the background until the Incarnation.
Sylvia
The OT God is certainly a kick-butt God, but you can see facets of that in the Son when He singlehandedly took on the Jewish hierarchy.
Sylvia
Not to mention Armagedon.
Thanks, Jonathan.
Sylvia
Satanus, I think your question was probably directed at me. Yes, I am entertaining some gnostic thoughts lately. I'm not a gnostic but am interested in their (and any others, for that matter) perspective on things right now. I am finding it fascinating that there is far more diversity of thought regarding the God(s) of that one book than I was ever led to believe as a JW. The Gnostics, the Jesus Sutras, you name it and I'm interested in reading it. And discussing it.
Some of their information is so compelling that they'd almost have me convinced.
So, in your view, there are two real gods, the father god and the creator god. The creator god being somewhat impetuous and immature, and the father god more mature and laying himself on the line, when it counts. It's a bit like gnostic, except i'm not sure where jesus fits in, in their theology.
S
The OT God is certainly a kick-butt God, but you can see facets of that in the Son when He singlehandedly took on the Jewish hierarchy.
Sylvia
Well, I don't think that YHWH needed to kick anyone's butt, he is God afterall, but I am sure many buttkickings were done in his name, poor guy.
As for passing Judgement on those that did evil, yes he did, just ask the fallen angels that he imprisoned before the Flood.
Yet he sent his son to preach to them after his "death".
That is the true God, the true YHWH, the God of peace and love and redemption, not the God of slaughter, death and mutilation, our God of Love and not anger or wraith, a God were are a fraid of hurting and disappointing, not a God we fear because he will "smite us".
The God of Jesus was alive and well in the OT, they just didn't write very much about him for some reason.
Sweeney
The other christianities are certainly worth checking out.
S
I don't think there are two Gods or more than one God, I do think that, just as we have here, there were more than ONE interpretation of what people BELIEVED GOd to be and God to want.
