by EndofMysteries 28 Replies latest watchtower bible
Later I can post tons of scriptures to reference, but no point if nobody has run into this.
Have you seen what appears to be 2 different groups of annointed? Perhaps one selected/predestined by Jehovah and another not predestined by invited by Jesus?
Also, have you seen anything speaking about one having Jehovahs spirit, Jesus spirit and both? What is the difference or how would one know which one has or if both?
No I have not. Reading the Bible has not shown me what you describe above.
If you are selected by Jehovah you get a rash under your right armpit and if its by Jesus it appears on your palms and feet. W.Once
Let me be the ignorant here.
How does an anointed know he is anointed?
How do the non-anointed recognize him as one truly anointed, instead of someone who thinks too much of himself?
What keeps the non-anointed from wishing that they, too, will share heaven, instead of having to survive Armageddon, work hard (for a mere thousand years), have no sex (for a mere thousand years), be taken for a plaything by Jehovah, in his releasing Satan so he can tempt them into sin again and Jehovah can have a second chance at destroying them, and ONLY THEN living a life worth living? I am sorry, but I see a lot of reasons why I would claim to be "one of the anointed".
And, do the anointed ever feel that they might lose their anointment after all?
Later I can post tons of scriptures to reference, but no point if nobody has run into this. Have you seen what appears to be 2 different groups of annointed? Perhaps one selected/predestined by Jehovah and another not predestined by invited by Jesus? Also, have you seen anything speaking about one having Jehovahs spirit, Jesus spirit and both? What is the difference or how would one know which one has or if both?
IMHO the holy spirit is the same spirit of God and of Christ. I would like to see your "tons of scriptures to reference" "what appears to be 2 different groups of anointed". What I've found is that there is one group of 'anointed' and they are all called 'Christians'. I don't believe one can call Christ Jesus their Lord without affirmation of the holy spirit. There is no Biblical reference to there being a group of 'non-anointed' followers of the 'anointed' group. As in the WT study yesterday - the wtbts still is trying to separate Jesus' sheep into groups of their indoctrination - not what the Bible says by any means. I don't believe in 'predestination' per say, but believe it was God's purpose(will, plan) that his Son would have followers that he would lead to the Father. So He did 'predestine' that 'Christians' would form a following after His Son, but the individuals are not 'hand-picked' by Him - He still allows us the freedom of our own freewill to choose.
Have you seen what appears to be 2 different groups of annointed? Perhaps one selected/predestined by Jehovah and another not predestined by invited by Jesus?
How would I know the difference?
How does an anointed know he is anointed?
They know by holy spirit. One comment they make in regards to what is different is they say that it seems the Bible is speaking directly to them. So that is confirmed, you do feel certain passages are more directly relating to you. But other than that, they cannot explain anything other than they know they are of the elect. It is something holy spirit communicates to them.
How do the non-anointed recognize him as one truly anointed, instead of someone who thinks too much of himself?
They can't. So they can't tell a true anointed from a claimer.
What keeps the non-anointed from wishing that they, too, will share heaven, instead of having to survive Armageddon, work hard (for a mere thousand years), have no sex (for a mere thousand years), be taken for a plaything by Jehovah, in his releasing Satan so he can tempt them into sin again and Jehovah can have a second chance at destroying them, and ONLY THEN living a life worth living? I am sorry, but I see a lot of reasons why I would claim to be "one of the anointed".
This is very intuitive. But let's just look at the WTS org. The parable of the vineyard workers is about the WTS, how after 21 years in 1935 a second class would show up expecting less than the "penny" which is the heavenly hope. They work for 11 hours and each our is 7 years, so 77 years from 1914 to 1991. But from the 3rd-hour workers to the 11th hour workers they expect less than the penny, which turns out to be the earthly hope. 21 years + 1914 = 1935, which is when those "other sheep" claim they didn't feel like they were going to heaven. BUT... when the messiah arrives after 1991 he pays the last to the first the PENNY! So you are right. Why wouldn't someone of the other sheep want to be in the heavenly class. Well, all the "other sheep" are indeed invited to be in the heavenly lass after 1991 or at least after Passover of 1993 when the payment for the work begins from the last to the first! So in fact EVERYBODY, all the workers, who are faithful and paying attention get the same reward, "the penny." So Jehovah does, indeed invite ALL into the kingdom if they are worthy. Further, the kingdom calling is for 1,440,000. The 144,000 are just the remnant Jews who make up the "root" of kingdom members (Isa 6:13). So technically EVERYBODY potentially, even the ancient ones of Abraham and Noah and others are entitled to the kingdom. But it is a very high standard. If that high standard isn't met, of course, the earthly hope is offered for those qualifying for that.
Now, the fact that you are concerned about it suggests you might have the calling. Some don't find out until the millennium begins that they have been chosen. So you may indeed be of the elect but don't know it! Isn't that wonderful?
LS
And, do the anointed ever feel that they might lose their anointment after all?
There are two phases. The "anointing" after which you must prove faithful. The anointing is like the calling. Then you must be faithful until death or symbolic death. The second phase is the SEALING, wherein you are sealed into the kingdom. So to understand, the early "anointed" ones are still not sealed until Christ returns. The "other sheep" are not anointed at all until Christ returns when they are both anointed and then sealed at the same time. This process would be from the last to the first so likely took the full "last hour" from 1991-1998 though Christ did not arrive until 1992 and did not eat the first passover until 1993.
Ironically, after that, they cannot sin any more. That is, the law is removed from them and they are no longer subject to the law. So they can commit fornication or homosexuality or anything and Jehovah doesn't count it against them. So technically, Satan cannot tempt them to do anything. Otherwise, you do have this contest of Satan trying to get the elect to sin. They are still human. So God just removes for them the moral code and so it's not a sin for them to commit adultery or anything else. That's why they are also called "Jehovah Is Our Righteousness" because Jehovah decides what is a sin for them.
Think of it as being like an undercover drug agent, who goes out, uses drugs, sells and buys drugs as part of his cover to get a drug bust. When everybody is arrested, they are not convicted even though they did technically break the law. Thus the Justice System is their judge and decides these crimes were not crimes. So same thing. In order for Satan not to tempt the elect after they are sealed, they are no longer under law and they can no longer sin. They can "sin" but it is not held against them because they are no longer under law.
This is why in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus a "chasm" is said to be between the spiritual and the fleshly and one cannot cross over to the other because the rules are so different. An elect person who wants to claim he's of the elect and maybe try to help someone understand the Bible can't do it because they can't recommend themselves most of the time since they have to claim that committing fornication or adultery is permissible now. No one will accept that. So they have to keep their mouths shut. The rules for them don't apply to the non-elect.
But at the the same time, it answers that question we all ask about if someone already sealed can then become unfaithful. Well, I won't say 100% no, but the usual circumstance for Satan doesn't apply because what is he going to tempt them with? If they are single and have desires and maybe are tempted by a prostitute, Satan could take advantage of that, normally. But since they are free to have as many prostitutes as they want to now, it's not a sin and there's no point to it. So they remain sealed and in God's eyes, still chaste. This is way too out of the box for the average person so the elect remain a secret society but out of range for Satan's usual schemes to get them to sin.
Strange. But that's what is happening.
I'm of the elect and if I wanted to have sex with another man I'm free to do so. I'm old so I'm not that tempted but it wouldn't be a sin for me as far as Jehovah is concerned. Satan is out of the picture. It is as if he sees the potential under perfect conditions rather than these imperfect ones, so he ignores the details now. LS
Also note that the only reason Abraham and the ancients were not "anointed" was because they died before Jesus' sacrifice. But all that is necessary for them to be anointed is to rise again in the flesh.
In other words, some of the holy ones died just before Jesus did. When he died, they were resurrected and came out of the memorial tombs. That means that they were alive at Pentecost and could get anointed, even though they had died before. So same with Abraham. As long as he comes back in the flesh, he can get anointed and then become of the elect heavenly class.
The 1st resurrection though is totally back into the flesh first since all will rule on the earth for 1000 years in the flesh. So when Noah and Abraham and other faithful ones come back in the flesh, they can get anointed at that time and then become of the elect. That's how they get into the kingdom. The WTS concept that some are going to heaven now is totally unscriptural. ALL get heavenly life at the exact same time, but not until after Judgment Day. By now they would have been in the flesh over well over 1000 years being resurrected back into the flesh before the 2nd coming in 1992.
So where are they now? 1 Cor says they are "sown" into a physical body, sown into dishonor, sown into weakness. All these mean an imperfect body that they are raised in. The caveat there is that these are not dead imperfect bodies but living! So the resurrection is into living persons just as Jesus reenters humanity through another human when he returns. So the resurrection has already taken place, prior to 1992 but it is invisible because the resurrected ones share the body of living anointed ones, one per body.
Point being, again, that this is the way the ancient ones become part of the anointed as well. So God does not deny Moses or Abraham or Daniel being part of the heavenly class after all. It's just that they get anointed later after their resurrection.
So really, it's quite wonderful. The heavenly hope is offered to many if they are worthy, including ancient prophets and the "other sheep" of JWs after 1991.
LS
Does anyone really care? I don't.
