by 2pink 53 Replies latest jw friends
"My personal study of the scriptures has taught me that there is no harm in celebrating joyous and happy occasions, such as anniversarys and birthdays. My Bible trained conscience is clear. And for every scripture that you try to use to show that birthdays are bad, I'll present two that support my position, plus I can present material from the Society that will logically defend my position. Have a nice day."
Excellent!
Don't respond to your cousin yet. Later maybe. Don't let her or the WTS rain on your parade this month. You have tried to move on peacefully for your children's sake. You are showing responsibility for your children so they can grow, experience their youth fully and positively.
My children are all grown, a few have children of their own now. They are all college graduates now and enjoy and are thankful for their lives and minds of freedom and shake their heads of what could have been otherwise.
thanks for all the replies.
i did not want to lie and really didn't want to ignore it either. i felt this had to be faced. we are realizing that because we have small kids, a fade is really not possible. and quite honestly, i really don't care either way anymore...fade or DF. so i went ahead and sent a 2 line message back to her saying simply that yes, we are planning a birthday party for my daughter because we find no scriptural objections to them whatsoever. i then told her that we would appreciate it if she did not share this matter with anyone else until we did.
here is her reply to me:
Well, as far as respecting your wishes for privacy- I am not in a hurry to tell anyone about this. However I hope that you don't live a double life for very long and put me into a weird position that I would have to tell the brothers because you know that is my obligation as a Witness to keep the congregation clean. I'm not rushing you to decide either. I'm really sorry that you are going thru this weird place and you didn't feel like you could talk to me about it. Is it just about birthday parties, or is this about something much bigger? I have a feeling this is bigger than b-day parties- but if you don't want to talk about it, then that's your decision.
As far as birthdays go- MY opinion is that they are a special day in our children's life, and I do recognize my girls b-day. Turning it into a celebration or participating in pagan customs is the part that is wrong. But you already know that. Sometimes we don't like certain aspects of our religion, I'm sure all the grown Israelite men going into the promised land didn't like the whole "circumcision" thing, but those were Jehovah's standards and if they wanted to be there, then that's what they had to do. I'm sure that you don't need me to preach to you right now. I just want you to know that you're not alone in finding things difficult to do or difficult to understand- that's where our faith comes in, and if our faith is very low, then it doesn't help us thru our rough spots.
I feel like maybe this is an attempt to hurt your parents in the worst way possible because of how much they have hurt you. If it is- please remember that they are the ones who hurt you- not Jehovah. They are the ones with their own "tweaked" view of things, not Jehovah. And he sees what you are going thru and they will have to be accountable to him for their actions. To be a witness does not mean having to raise your children the way you were raised. Jehovah is a God of love and reasonableness and patience and forgiveness- he is not your parents.
I'm sorry that I haven't just picked up the phone and called you about all of this- but I feel very sad about it and I can't emotionally go there right now infront of my kids- they're home sick again! Plus I already feel like I have put you on the spot and I'm sorry about that- you don't owe me explanations, but I just couldn't pretend like I didn't know that something was going on and it was my obligation as a Christian to find out more.
I hope that you still pray about this before you make any major decisions. should i reply or just let it die? i'm thinking let it die so as to give no more fuel to this potential firestorm, but i do feel like i need to find out from her when she is going to the elders on this. apparently, we have a timeline now!!!!
In my expirience once the cat is out of the bag things happen pretty fast. Even though she says she will keep it quiet right now she will probably feel guilty and fear getting in trouble herself if she says nothing. You have to feel sorry for them. They live in fear of the Watchtower and its tyranical god and before long (if she doesn't already) she will fear you. I would prepare for trouble so you will be ready to handle it when it comes.
In my case they came after me pretty quickly but because I didn't recognize their authority any more and took control of the situation they went out of my life almost immediately. The catch was so did every other witness I knew. I thought I would have time to explain my position or at least some of them would contact me to see what was going on but it never happened. So if you do stand up to them be prepared to be ignored and feared.
2Pink, wish I could say more that would help your situation; tho it sounds like you've gotten a pretty good 'handle' on it right now...
Borrowing from your cousin's post: "Turning it into a celebration or participating in pagan customs is the part that is wrong...." This comment always drives me up a wall, after the information I've found regarding the origins of the bible's teachings themselves... the bible itself has many Pagan beliefs and practices incorporated directly into its theology...
The Isra-EL-ites still carry the name of their original, so-called 'Pagan' god, EL, within their own name, used frequently in the bible... The Isra-EL-ites worshipped the golden calf and were disciplined for it. Within the same book, the Isra-EL-ites worshipped a BRONZE SERPENT lifted up on a pole, and were rewarded for it - and said 'bronze serpent' was later declared to be a MODEL for the MESSIAH - nonetheless, it was STILL IMAGE WORSHIP!!
The Isra-EL-ites venerated an erupting volcano as a manifestation of their 'god'... Neither the Isra-EL-ites nor their 'god' had a clue that it was actually a volcano; which indicates a woeful lack of information from the 'god' who supposedly 'built' the earth...
The so-called 'twelve' tribes of Isra-EL correspond with the twelve signs of the Zodiac - but one must also look at the Egyptian and Chinese zodiacs for the full picture...
The Isra-EL-ite 'sacred' number "7" was a sacred number in Goddess worship long before the Isra-EL-ites formed as a tribal group... Likewise with their number "3", which was used in Triple Goddess worship long before their 'god' existed...
That's just a sampling; what I am most familiar with at this point. Moving on to the New Testament...
The commandment of Jesus - "Take, eat, this means my flesh", and "Drink from this cup; it means my blood"... come from several different Pagan sources. The belief that the 'corn' died in order for 'Man' to live is a Celtic belief, among others. The belief that the wine represented a god's blood comes from the ancient, Pagan, Greek worship of Dionysus, which preceeded the jewish version by many hundreds of years. It was believed by the ancient Greeks that the harvesting, crushing, and turning to wine of the grapes, and the subsequent trimming of the grapevine, represented the death of the god Dionysus so that 'Man' might live... Oh, and Dionysus was 'hung upon a wooden cross'; that is, the grapevine is tied up to a wooden structure to force it to grow in a certain way...
It is also a throwback to the belief system of Animism; the belief that all things on earth have 'souls' or 'spirits', including the corn/wheat 'killed' for bread, and the grapes/grapevines 'cut off'/'killed' for wine... Propitiatory ceremonies were performed to 'thank' said grains and grapevines for 'giving up their life/lives' so that 'Man' might survive for another year... Native Americans often performed propitiatory ceremonies to their crops, animals they sought for food, and weather which controlled the size and conditions of their crops.
The belief that Jesus was 'in the grave' for 3 days, then resurrected, was originally a Semitic belief about the Goddess Innanna. The Babylonians believed their goddess Ishtar was ceremonially killed - or sacrificed herself - to enter 'the grave' for 3 days and 3 nights - after which she either resurrected herself or was resurrected by her consort or subservient god. These beliefs existed severa
And again, the changes to this system chopped off the rest of my post...
As I was saying, these beliefs existed several thousand years before 'Jesus' came along...
So, every time I hear some Christian 'yowl' about those nasty "Pagan" practices, I either giggle or roll my eyes... They have no clue...
Zid 
Plea the 5th
invite all your jw friends and family to the birthday party. and when they don't show up or call complaining. tell them you are now SHUNNING THEM for being spritual drunkards. romans 14;6 col 2;16-18 then tell them to drop dead
Hi 2pink,
Hope you are doing OK.
Well it is for the best. "No pain, no gain" as they say.
Cut that WT gangrene off 2 Timothy 2 It will protest but like you said, the other option is to allow it to spread :(
Blessings,
Stephen
