Women as second class citizens

iMARX

I don't know about anyone else, but even when I was 14 or 15 I had an issue with the fact that women are weaker vessels than men and we are to be submissive to our "head" of the house etc...

People just assumed I was a moody teenager trying to be cool by disagreeing with those scriptures but I was a feminist in the making.

I even asked an elder's wife about it and I said to her: "You're a headstrong woman, how do you feel about this? Do you think you should succumb to Paul's every word and do as he says all the time??"

She replied: "I hate that scripture too Sarah. In fact there are a lot of Biblical topics I don't particularly like but I ignore them."

THEN, her husband, the PO turned round and said: "Me too, Sarah. There's a few bible parts I disagree with totally, but hey...I'm an elder."

It was at this point where I started to lose my "faith". And, today still, those people blame the world for my leaving the JW religion.

finallysomepride

I have always thought the same, why? why should someone, bcoz of the sex they were born be a cause of discrimination in the (now) cult, everyone should have the same opportunety.

Male head of the house? what a load of crap, marriage is a partnership, not for the male to make the final decision.

Paul, was a control freak, if he actually existed at all, and wrote all those books that appear to really have been written by a number of ppl

AdaMakawee

And when you start not believing this part of the bible, you can start looking at the rest of it and wondering how much sense it makes (none).

Ada

I asked my Mom about this (again) recently. She said she didn't agree with this, however, "I have faith in Jehovah". When ever she really can't answer a question or debate anything logically, the answer becomes "I have faith in Jehovah".

That issue, for me, was big. In the 70's, Helen Reddy was singing about "I am Woman" and my Mom was getting her first job. She was reading Cosmopolitan on the sly (and I was at age 11) and then I was forced to put a napkin on my head and was told I was not as good as the boys. Uh, NO. I just knew that was not true.

Why women in this time in the world are willing to be treated like crap I will never understand. Oh, because Paul said so? Paul, who lived 2000 years ago and wrote some ridiculous stuff that now, 2000 years later, American women are going, "Yeah, I think that sounds good. I guess I will be in submission to my Husband. I'll let him to beat the shit out of me. I'll try to get 2 witnessess to the abuse to get a spiritual divorce."

The JWs have made zero progress in this. Zero. Again, you would think that women's lightbulbs would go off when they read this crap.

The bulbs in some people's heads must be very dim.

JosephMalik

Why women in this time in the world are willing to be treated like crap I will never understand. Oh, because Paul said so?

VIII,

Well I looked at all this years ago and found out that Paul did not say so. Denominations interpret his letters like he did and it may sound like he did to you unless you read the text that follows more carefully. If we really pay attention to what Paul is doing in his letters we will learn that he was putting down the Corinthians and others that were doing this. He had to mention it or quote them in order for us to know what he was talking about but then Paul would put such thinking down. Hard to see in scripture but listening to audio tapes helped. I know and it took me a long time but you can do the same if you pay attention to what Paul is doing. More information in the document Beyond Watchtower Doctrine that downloads with the book at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/btwbook.html Very few women ever came to realize that Paul was their friend as he went to bat for them against entrenched traditions of men.

Joseph

babygirl30

Now as far as the Bible says about respecting each other and treating each other with love (in a marriage) I AGREE with that! No matter who u r or what religious beliefs u have - respect is the name of the game!!! Where I do NOT agree is where is talks about submission...numerous talks have been given about how submission is 'not degrading' or the brother will claim it's not a form of 'slavery' - but I fail to understand how submission is anything other then the expectation that a woman is to completely LISTEN TO her husband. As a woman, I'm not some low level human being...I accept that I am may not physically be as strong as a man...I can live with the fact that I am considered more 'emotional' then a man (although in MY case - I beg to differ) - what I cannot live with is that a religion has ordered me as 'sub par'. Being raised in a household with a controlling father who felt his 'girls' needed to do whatever HE said and wanted, being raised in a religion of control where they dictate every move and I make and what 'privileges' I can and cannot have, leaving a relationship with a man who felt that I was his property and that he had the right to 'assault' me until I followed his direction 100% of the time. So tell me WHY in the heck I would want to go BACK to being a JW??????

Heaven

iMARX... it was one of the main reasons I didn't become a JW. Back in the '70s there was the "Your Youth" book ( ) and an article about wives subjugating themselves to their husbands ( ). Never in a million years could I do this. I knew then I could never be a JW.

I look at these types of scriptures in the Bible and I ask myself ..."Is this a 'True North Principle'?" "Is this supportive of 'The Laws of Life'?" If the scripture cannot stand up to these, I pitch it. I have always been highly suspicious of a book written entirely by men that said women were to be subjugated.

JosephMalik

BabyGirl30,

Suggestions are not commandments and we have to look at the reasons for them: What I had to say about them is:

COLOSSIANS 3:18; TITUS 2:5; 1 PETER 3:1-6

These verses deal with subjection in the home or as an example to others and do not delegate women to a secondary position in the Faith. Such subjection is natural, good behavior and does not imply blind obedience or inferiority. In the case of 1 Peter 3:1-6 it is actually a request to women to relinquish their freedom in the Faith so as to win over their unbelieving husbands. The issues such women were faced with are familiar ones. The apostle Paul fought them constantly. It was a case of not picking on an open wound even though such women had the freedom to do so. Peter used Sarah as an example and thus did not associate this thought with the law or regulations of the Jews or Jewish Christians who supported such theology.

And we have examples in scripture where women were not expected to consider such behavior. We even have examples where women prophets tried to protect Paul from his own brothers when he went to Jerusalem to confront them as they were wrong. So they did the right thing even though Paul had to go anyway to resolve the problems in spite of such good advice given to him by women. It is not just reading the verses, it involves thinking them through and that is why we have such a mess.

Joseph

VIII

If Burkas could be passed on a Biblical, the JW women would be wearing them. You can bet the men in Brooklyn would have passed that one as a principal that Jesus would have approved.

The JWs need women as second class slaves. What better way than to twist biblical words (the NWT is not a true translation) and use those words to keep a group of people down? Especially a group of people who are desperately hoping for Everlasting Life and Paradise?

Desperate people will do anything. Especially brainwashed desperate people.

JosephMalik

VIII,

Well I suggest that they get out. The WT can not cure them when sick, raise them from death or forgive their sins. They do not know what the scriptures teach but insist they do. Who needs them?

Joseph

Women as second class citizens

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