by Dold Agenda 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Jesus here had a clear opportunity to put his foot down in support of an organization where people were in lock-step with him and his disciples. Instead, he makes a statement that is clearly against organization. All that mattered was that this man belonged to Christ, not what group he was with.
A very valid point, its funny how when we look for things we find them.
Its a shame that more JW's don't have it in them to actually look for themselves.
Why should God need a human organisation on earth?
Because someone needs to enforce the One Towel Rule.
Rub a Dub
Because someone needs to enforce the One Towel Rule.
Especially when using an "ass towel".
I tend to believe the scripture in psalms that says, "Do not put your trust in nobles or in the son of earthling man to whom there is no salvation" any MAN MADE organization including the WTS falls into this scriptural classification.
LD
So far...
1 Corinthians 1:10; I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
>>Yet Paul continues in defining what he means in subsequent verses. he says that these divisions are people claiming they were baptized in Crispus or others while all should simply be in Christ. he is not asking for uniformity in beleif...but against following anyone other than Jesus.
Heb 10:24, 25; And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
>> #1 This simply admonishes to not forsake gatherings together...it does not speak of a one true organization. At most it inidcates a meeting together of like-minded ones. #2 This was actually speaking regarding Jews who were still zealous for the Law withdrawing from, forsaking social gatherings among the other Jews and Gentile Christians who were not keeping the Law.
2 Cor 6:15-18; What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
17"Therefore come out from them
and be separate, says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you."
18"I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
>>This simply contrasts Christ versus the Devil. One must read 'one true organization' into this for it to be there.
1 Peter 2:17; Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.
>> As well as... (Colossians 3:12-14) 12 Accordingly, as God’s chosen ones, holy and loved, clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. 13 Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as Jehovah freely forgave YOU, so do YOU also. 14 But, besides all these things, [clothe yourselves with] love, for it is a perfect bond of union.
>> Love is the perfect bond of union... Forgiving one another freely is also in the scripture...
Acts 15:14-18; Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16" 'After this I will return
and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
18that have been known for ages.
>>It makes clear how God states that He initiates His works through men.
Acts 15:22-31; Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. 30The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message.
Acts 16:4; As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.
Eph 4:11-16; It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Titus 1:5; The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.
1Ti 3:1-10; Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. 8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
1Pe 5:2, 3; Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.
Joshua 23:1, 2; And it came to pass a long time after that Jehovah had given rest to Israel from all their enemies round about, and Joshua had become old, advanced in age, 2that Joshua called for all Israel, for their elders, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers
Acts 14:23; Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.
>>Even though an organization was always necessary God only used the organization, it was not an itegral part of His plan.
Acts 20:28; Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
>>The Holy Spirit has made you overseers! It does not say the organization made you overseers!
"church of God," in the Bible, does not say Jehovah's Witnesses Organization.
1Cor 11:17 - NIV - "In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good."
1 Cor 11:3; Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
>>The head of every man is Christ! Yes not the head of man is man! The direction should be from Christ! Not the Organization!
Psalms 133:1; How good and pleasant it is
when brothers live together in unity!
>>The psalmist affirms the benefits of family unity!
>>"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely". He sure didn't make a mistake to actually put men to lead other men - like blind leading the blind."
>>Look up this http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/organization.php
>>"How about doing literaly what that scripture tells us, instead of trying to force an organization into it? That scripture doesn't tell me anything of a need for an organization."
>>Mark 9:38-41: "John said to him: 'Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us.' But Jesus said: 'Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me; for he that is not against us is for us. For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink on the ground that you belong to Christ, I truly tell you, he will by no means lose his reward.' " Shows an example that all that mattered was that man belonged to Christ, not what group he was with.
A few posts mention 1 Cor 11:3, where Paul states "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ , and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."
Why didn't Paul mention the organization here? Why didn't he mention the "faithful and discreet slave"? (As a side note, did you ever wonder why there's no record of any First Century Christians referring to themselves as the "faithful and discreet slave"?)
This verse addresses headship in the family context and in the context of God's so-called "heavenly organization." If Paul really believed that there was an earthly organization to which men and women must submit, it seems that he would have included it in this discussion. But he didn't. This casts doubt on the claims of the WTS (or any other organization) claiming that the Bible requires Christians to submit to an organization of human religious leaders.
Acts 15:22-31; Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. 30The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message.
Acts 16:4; As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.
This was in reply to ONE SPECIFIC ISSUE. Jerusalem was not the so-called governing body but rather the SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM. Paul and Barnabas came from Antioch (which by the way operated totally independent from Jerusalem, sending out missionaries, etc without any sort of consultation with Jerusalem) to Jerusalem to settle an issue that Jerusalem was creating. You will notice in reading the account that the apostles and the old men met- no limitation on the number of older men, indicating a huge council of the apostles and all the older men of Jerusalem...much greater in size than a GB meeting. Aside from this get-together NOWHERE in the Bible is any such council ever again mentioned.
Isaac is correct,
Jerusalem had to make a call since "they" were the ones that started the problem.
Fact is, Paul make sit clear that he went to NO ONE for "permission" or "guideance" when he started his preaching.
If Paul believed that there was a centralized group, he would have gone, jesus would have told him to go there and not to an INDIVIDUAL like he sent Paul to and said individual wasn't even an apostle !
Ah wow that does make since... thanks isaacaustin & PSacramento...
Most of the organized crap started after the deaths of the apostles with the likes of Ignatius arguing for a total obdience to the heirachy of the Bishop downwards.
