by cantleave 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
But the fact is that nowhere in that text does it say God actually condoned what Jephthah did.
Nowhere does it say that he disapproved, either. It does raise the question as to why god didn't stop him. Jephthah felt compelled to go through with it because of the vow that he had made to god. Why didn't God intervene and tell him he didn't really have to kill his own child?
Dare we say that the life of a mere girl was far less important than the important patriarch Isaac?
Very disturbing stuff, this - disturbing enough that even Bible literalists like the JWs kind of want to skirt around this one.
This comes as a shock to me. You're joking, right? Come on. Jephthah KILLED his daughter? I know it says 'burnt offering', but...BURNT burnt offering? Not like a symbolic burnt offering? Holy crap! I'll have to reexamine this one.
It's very true that (1) it doesn't seem logical for Jephthah to be that worked up if she's just going to be a nun or something; can't he just have another kid if he's desperate for an heir? A man who can do battle can probably have a wife or three and kids, right? (2) There is no indication that there is a priesthood or any special worship arrangement going on at this time in Israel. So where could she have gone?
Wow...the more you forget about your cult training, the creepier the Bible gets...
SD-7
I see the pattern here:
If a person holds to the belief that the biblical Deity is real, and that he is the epitome of love, and that every bad&good deed is judged by him, when they read the bible they don't do so with an opened mind, they are unable to, because they funnel it through a heavily biased belief system and grab at straw like reasoning in an effort to keep the biblical deity untarnished with anything that can be labeled barbaric, cruel unloving and unjust.
Of course I speak from my own experience and feel absolutely no derision, because I realize how hard it can be, it took me a couple of years after I left the JWs to finally come to terms with the fact that the biblical Deity was pretty mean and awfully petty,, I guess I was finally able to admit it to myself after just trying to find out the truth about the bible it wasn't easy because I had so much time and energy invested in this Deity and went through a considerable cognitive dissonance.
I just read those passages from Judges.
I have ot be honest, while burnt offering is obviously mentioned:
whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
The rest leads one to conclude that he did NOT offer up his daughter as a burnt offering in the literal sense, if he did, why bring up marriage?
"My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites.
But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."
"You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry.
After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From those passages it seems to conclude that a "deal" was reached in regards to her virginity and availibility to marry, nowhere is her life ending mentioned or even hinted at.
Frankie,
Or just maybe, those who believe in the biblical God do indeed examine the bible with an open mind, but that this examination takes all the scriptures dealing with a particular issue into consideration.
In doing so I indeed must accept this sacrifice as a real human one, meaning Jephthah did indeed burn his own daughter in fire. However, it does not say anywhere in that text that he did so with God's approval. Just that he, himself felt this act would have God's approval.
In many other texts, God, himself is clear that he DOES NOT accept nor condone this practice.
You raised a good point though about having an open mind. That would go both ways for believers and nonbelievers in the biblical God, wouldn't you agree?
Peace, Lilly
It is a tragic morality tale. The moral is: Don't be a fool like Jephthah, don't make rash vows. If the story had made God intervene, the force of this lesson would be diminished. The rationalizing interpretation that makes the story less tragic (by making his daughter a temple servant) also takes away from the moral lesson. The Law forbids swearing falsely (Exodus 20:7, Leviticus 19:12), and Jephthah put himself into a bind that condemned his own daughter. The irony of the story is that Jephthah's daughter received the kind of fame and honor that heroes and warriors receive (cf. Judges 5:11, where the same verb in 11:40 is used), whereas her father (the supposedly wise judge) would be remembered as a fool; she had four days devoted to her each year for the recounting of her memory (which would have involved deploring Jephthah for his deed).
The motif of the tale is well-attested in many different myths and stories. I personally like the version involving Alexander the Great the best. One day he was obligated to sacrifice the first living thing he encountered and this turned out to be a man in a wagon. But before he could be sacrificed, the hapless man pointed out that technically the mule driving the wagon had met Alexander first, and so Alexander sacrificed the mule.
Lovely,
Yes you make a point about believers and unbelievers as prejudice, and closed mindedness likely exists in both camps.
But I would like you to consider the assumption that is made by those who take the bible as the literal word of god and assume that because it says thus and so in one book of the bible that another book would not contradict it. As in the references you gave to try and prove God would never condone such a thing.
I think open mindedness in reading the bible needs to done without forgone conclusion every book in the bible is God's word, and leave plenty of room for the idea that there could be contradiction,, depending on the dynamic at play during the time of original writing and the later redaction's.
To automatically believe the bible is the word of God does not allow one to read it with an open mind agreed?
nowhere is her life ending mentioned or even hinted at.
"Whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be Yahweh's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering" (v. 31). "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to Yahweh that I cannot break" (v. 35). "After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed" (v. 39).
I say that's a very strong hint. He did to her as he had vowed. What did he vow? He vowed to offer the one who meets him as a burnt offering. Could he break that vow? No....he says he cannot break that vow. Is there any statement in the passage that he "reached a deal" with Yahweh to alter his vow after the fact? No, absolutely nothing is said to that effect. He mourns the fact that he cannot break his vow, and the next reference to the vow in the text is in v. 39 which states flatly that he carried out his vow as promised.
Why bring up marriage? Jephthah had no other children. His daughter was a young woman who has marriage in her future. In patriarchal Israelite society, women fulfill their potential only by bearing children to perpetuate their fathers' lineage. And throughout the OT, the common view of death is that it is welcomed after a person fulfills his or her days. Her death is premature, not only because she is so young but because she would fail to realize her potential as a woman. She mourns the life that she will never have. She mourns the fact that she will never be able to give her father any descendents. She needs the time of mourning to come to terms with her own death, so she can face it with courage.
OTWO said: WTS.... says that God would never accept human sacrifice, based on some other OT scriptures. Of course the story of Jephthah and his daughter doesn't really fit the idea that God would never accept human sacrifice.
Except of course, if it's a blood transfusion. Then apparently, there's nothing that God likes more than a human sacrifice.
