God hasn't carried out rev 21, because there is revelation 1-20 to go through first.
If God Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?
by minimus 392 Replies latest jw friends
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mouthy
Min You be a good boy....you believe is Santa dont you???are you expecting any thing from him
Well some of us believe in God...Just let me say this for you sweetie
"Lord "our" Minimus dont think your around.But please send your Comforter
the TEACHER...to let him stop asking us the questions he wants answered
Let him realize it might be a good idea to ask YOU! I know I told him I ask you
lots of Questions & you dont always tell me the answer right away,but you seem
to later on.....But of course we have to rememember a day with you is a thousand
years, or a flash in the night....I ask it in the name above all others JESUS CHRIST AMEN" -
startingover
Minimus asked a really good, to the point question to start this thread, followed by many posts that pointed out the obvious answer. But intermingled throughout this fast moving thread I have never seen such a display of mental gymnastics to justify a belief. Is it just so hard for some people to accept the obvious reality of life? If that's not what it is, and I can accept that many can't deal with it, then all I can say is WTF is wrong with you!
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HappyGuy
When I stated we see the results of man governing himself
back to the example I used, which none of the "god is doing something but it is complicated and not according to your time frame" defenders of god's obvious inaction even tried to address. The parasite that makes the children blind (millions of children) is there because man is having difficulty governing himself? I thought your god Jehovah created all the life on earth?
So Jehovah sits there watching the children be blinded by the parasite and thinks "nothing I can do, man if governing himself"?
Please, that is completely ridiculous.
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HappyGuy
God hasn't carried out rev 21, because there is revelation 1-20 to go through first
Why, why is it necessary to go through all that other crap first? OH, I forgot, your god Jehovah's sense of "Justice" has to be mollified which is why your god condemned billions of people to death for the sin of the first two humans. Sorry, don't know what I was thinking. Two people sin then billions of people have to go through millenia of suffering so that the god who created the situation in the first place can have his sense of "Justice" mollified.
Only an insane being would require such a thing while his children suffered.
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Mad Dawg
Many of you are assuming the following propositions:
a. God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good, and therefore should have the will and the ability toprohibit or precludeevil and/or suffering from ever eventuating.
b. Such a god would be obligated by His/Her/Its/Their ethics to prohibit or preclude evil and suffering from ever eventuating (i.e. there is no adequate reason for it to be allowed to eventuate/continue);
c. Evil and suffering ostensibly occur.
Therefore, the god described in proposition A does not, in fact, exist.
For anyone to state that there is no adequate reason, they would have to know EVERY possible reason. To know that, they would have to be God. As we are not God, we cannot know every possible reason. Our ignorance, of God’s rationale, does not give us reason to act as if we are not ignorant.
Yes, the WTS picture of God is false, but that doesn’t lay false the existence of God.
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HappyGuy
Tell that to the blind children who are blind because a parasite lives in the river that they get their drinking water from. I'm sure that they will be happy that they have free will and god is not interfering with their rights. Again, I reinterate, this life is not all there is. While you're here pretending to be a "happyguy" They are most likely in heaven enjoying eternity. Geesh. And since you're so concerned for them get your butt away from the computer, buy the medication and get it down there. Or are you waiting for someone else to do it, like God or the government? We are in a fallen world, crap happens, he does give us guidelines or instructions to live by that will make our lives better and for us to make other lives better. And he will take care of all wickedness in armegedon. He is doing something, what are YOU doing?
littlebrain,
I find it interesting that you deflect attention away from the hard heartedness of your god by attacking me, making this somehow my fault because I didn't fix it.
I'll take your argument apart point by point.
"I reiterate this life is not all there is". The blind children don't care about that, they are blind now, they are suffering now. A being of pure love (which you claim your god is) could not watch such suffering and do nothing about it, empathy would move it to take action. Since it takes no action then either it is powerless or your claim that it is pure love is false.
"While you're here pretending to be a 'happy guy' they are most likely in heaven enjoying eternity". No, I'm not pretending, I am happy. I just don't put up with injustice and I call 'em as I see 'em. So, the blind children are all of the anointed class? So, god allows the anointed class to suffer needlessly? What about the blind children who have not gone to heaven yet? What about their suffering?
"And since you're so concerned for them get your butt away from the computer, buy the medication and get it down there". Unfortunately, the title of this thread is not If Happy Guy Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?, the title of this thread is If God Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?. So, trying to shift the blame onto me doesn't cut it.
"Or are you waiting for someone else to do it, like God or the government?" That is the point of this thread, I will post the title again for you since you seem not to have read it or to have misunderstood it "If God Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?", so yes, I am wanting God to do something about it since he created the parasites and put them in the rivers. For God to solve this problem, if he is what you claim, would be less than trivial and would have zero impact on the universal sovereignty, man's free will, blah blah blah rationale the JWs like to use. So, why doesn't he do it now, what is he waiting for? a few hundred million more blind children?
"We are in a fallen world". Perhaps but your god created the parasites and put them in the river. Whether mankind is fallen or not has nothing to do with that.
"Crap happens". Seriously? Millions of children are blind because of a condition that your god could easily fix, and your god could do something about it and doesn't, and all you can say is "crap happens"? You show zero empathy for the people afflicted with blindness? Please don't ever go to the Congo and say that to the people there, you'll be executed on the spot. This is one of the reasons why people detest Jehovah's Witnesses, this total lack of empathy for suffering.
"He does give us guildelines and instructions to live by". Well, I have read the Bbile cover to cover many hundreds of times and nowhere in it do I find instructions on how to heal the blind children who become blind due to the river parasites. Would you care to show me the scripture you are talking about? Nor do I see any instructions on how the people living in areas infested by the parasite can avoid becoming infected. Again, care to quote that scripture?
"that will make our lives better and for us to make other lives better". Seriously? You have obviously never been to the 3rd world. All the platitudes in the world are not going to ease the suffering that exists there. How exactly will the stories in your Bible make the lives better for people who are born into abject poverty with no way out? Please enlighten us.
"And he will take care of all wickedness in armegedon". So, the children are wicked and that is why they are being blinded? New borns are wicked? What is their sin? God is purposely blinding them? The parasites are wicked? But your god created the parasites, so I guess I'm confused.
"He is doing something". What exactly?
"what are YOU doing". Again, the title of this thread is NOT "If Happy Guy Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?", the title of this thread is "If GOD Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?"
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The Oracle
If God truly cared about people wouldn't he do something by now?
To answer your question: Yes. He would have.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, that if he cared and if he existed he would have done something by now. Waiting makes no sense.
If he does exist then he most certainly doesn't care. If he doesn't care then he is not a very nice person.
The Oracle
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AK - Jeff
Looks like we have reached a consensus then? Nice summation by Oracle.
Nicely stated HappyGuy. You are correct, of course. Those of us who dare to challange the idea of a 'Loving God, who acts as if nothing is wrong', are typically getting the heat here, instead of the God concept being honestly thought out.
I know people want to believe. So did I. I did believe. For many decades. I excused God for allowing these things. I just can't do so anymore.
When I see more compassion expressed by the 'sinners', than by the "Holy Holy Holy God of Eternity filled with Love, and Joy and all knowing and all powerful", I become aware that this God either doesn't exist, or He is not as ordained in the minds of those who defend him. When it becomes obvious in discussion that even the death of millions in holocaust is not significant to refrain this defense, then it is time to just let it rest with the jury isn't it?
The jury has seen the mountains of evidence from one side, and the illusory arguments of 'my faith just tells me so' from the other. The 'beginning' was two naked people talking to a snake in paradise that resulted in billions of people dying, sickness, aging, pain, war and all the rest. The end is the result of this beginning? Just that part makes absolutely no sense to begin with does it?
Good question Min. Of course this is the deadlocked jury you would expect.
WOW
Jeff
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PSacramento
Jeff,
You make a very valid question in regards to the holocaust.
God did stand "idly" by and did nothing when millions of people were being killed, there is no other way to see that.
God could have ended that with a "snap of the finger", that is the nature of his omnipotence.
While one can argue that God acted through those that fought the Evil that was the Nazi "empire", we also have to admit that God didn't NEED people to fight his battles, did he?
I don't have an answer for you Jeff and I wish I did.