by Amazing 99 Replies latest jw friends
Teejay,
Tomorrow morning I must be at work at 5:30 a.m. Before I go, I choose to spend some time with my son, do laundry, and clean up my apartment.
At this moment, I am in no mood to deal with your nonsense. If I choose to deal with it at all, I will deal with it after I return from work on Monday evening.
Ginny
Teejay,
I think you brought out some relevant points.
It's one thing to say something that offends, without meaning to offend.
It's another thing to say something that offends, with the sole intent of offending, and with no intention of apologising for the hurt caused.
There's a few others on this board who are the same. They refuse to apologise for misgivings, even when the other party is willing to say sorry and start over. Some of them are friends of Ginny, and it seems she holds the same viewpoint.
I agree that this board has not really taught me much in how to be a better person. The standards my parents taught me still are part of me today. All I have learnt here is that there are many who do not know the common decency of saying sorry, being sensitive to other people's feelings, and mutual respect.
It's another thing to say something that offends, with the sole intent of offending, and with no intention of apologising for the hurt caused.
You mean you've never done this on this board yourself? Let's not throw stones.
Andi
Andi,
I did not say I never did this, so please don't put words in my mouth.
I am just sick of people who constantly offend with the sole purpose of hurting others. I am often attacked for no reason, without provocation. Then if I defend myself in like manner, I am the big baddy. Get real.
Prisca,
Check your mail.
Andi
Ginny,
I'm sorry that you are "in no mood to deal with my nonsense." It's regrettable that you view my post, important and wholly forthright as it is, as "nonsense" at all. I wish I could truthfully say that I am surprised with your single-word overview. I'm not. I simply felt it necessary for me to clear the air with you as regards your recent epiphany that I do in fact have redeeming qualities that you, in the past, somehow missed.
When composing what I thought would be my last offering to Amazing's amazing Farewell Thread, it was not my intention that you "deal" <cough.. cough> with anything. As I said, I thought I was only wrapping up some old mail and tidying up the room before closing the door that one last time... you know... moving on to other things? You brought longstanding issues into the discussion as a sort of an afterthought and I addressed them as a way of putting some old issues to rest. More importantly, what I said to you I said to the board as a whole, since you are not the only who needed to hear what I had to say. Not by a long shot.
Anyway, do as you see fit--answer... don't answer. Either way, I stand more-than-ready and more-than-able to make a response to whatever you have to say. Oh, but you know that already, eh?
Hello, Prisca,
I honestly feel that in your heart you agree with what I've said here, but I think that regarding one of your fellow posters--just one--you could make improvement You know who that one is.
You are not without blame when it comes to making statements that are *intended* to offend and cause emotional injury. You well know that you have done the same, and all too often. I think you have it in you to be a much better person. Having your feelings hurt, being angry, having a bad day... whatever... is NO excuse for using words to hurt other people on an online forum, a place where it is soooo easy to edit what we say... if we so choose.
Peace,
tj
Isn't it amazing how so many people can misread such a simple sentence?
My thoughts exactly, JanH... my thoughts exactly.
Ginny and Teejay/ Sittin in a tree/.....heheheheheh
Yo, Bigster!
You can prolly guess that we ain't both sitting up in the tree no more. Guess which one fell out?
Or got pushed....
Teejay,
I am not usually at home at this time on a Saturday afternoon. Today I am.
Until now, I hadn't intended to answer you. You said:
I do not know your intent and frankly, do not trust your intent.If you do not trust me when I state my intent, we have no basis for meaningful communication.
Whether or not you had just cause to be angry, I can't say. I CAN say that in the matter of your 'gender joke' I (and Bigboi) had just cause to be deceived... even angry. You say that "your stance on that issue was ridiculous" but what you will apparently never see nor own up to is that my "stance" regarding your gender was based entirely on YOUR WORDS !Event: Ginny says, "Actually, I'm a man. 'Ginny' is just my agent persona."
Event: Ginny says, "Actually, I'm a man. 'Ginny' is just my agent persona."
Interpretation: Ginny has told a lie.
Feeling: Angry and indignant.
Response: Confronts Ginny about her bad conduct.
Event: Ginny says, "I have a confession. I'm also Englishman and Tina."
(from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18727&site=3#231064 )
Interpretation: Ginny has told a joke.
Feeling: Amused.
Response: Laughs.
I made a false statement, and you [Bigboi] and Teejay got a wrong impression. It appears to me that both you and Teejay feel that someone needs to take responsibility for this wrong impression. Who is at fault? Who is liable?Please accept responsibility for your own interpretation, Teejay, and stop trying to shift the blame onto my shoulders.I felt that my false statements were presented within a context that would give the careful reader cues that I was making a joke: "Ginny is just my agent persona," "Big Mean Hairy Hoss." In all of my posts previous to the one in question, and in all of my posts since, I have always referred to myself as female.
I realize that there are people in this world who need a "Liquid is very HOT" warning on a cup of coffee. I do not write for them. I do not plan to use joke disclaimers in my posts. I trust that anyone who wonders whether I am joking or being serious will ask. I feel that my liability in this case is very small.
Please think about your share of the liability. Did you read the surrounding context of my statement? Did you think about the connection between my being a man and my secret agent persona? Did either of you ask me afterwards if I was serious or joking? The only hint I received was your, "Ginny, That is sooooooooo wrong!!!" which I thought had a double meaning like, "That is soooo bad!" (Jive is not one of my fortes.)
As soon as Teejay made it clear that he literally thought I was a man, I explained the truth. It was then that I learned that you, too, literally thought I was a man.
Should I apologize? If so, for what? For making a joke? For the inability of some of my readers to read the surrounding context and understand? I do not feel it is wrong to make jokes, and I will not apologize for that. Nor do I plan to adjust my humor for the literal-minded. If you read my posts, please do so at your own risk.
from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18727&site=3#231064
That was: I *always* knew that they said more about YOU -- who/what you were/are -- than they ever could about ME.That's exactly how I feel about your posts, too, Teejay.
I know who I am. You don't. Your disparaging comments had no weight or validity because I knew you were speaking from ignorance -- your ignorance. Other factors were also at play I understood, but never did real truth or a harmony with the facts/reality as to the kind of person I am stand as any kind of support for what you said. For that reason, I could continue (and HAVE continued) to participate on this forum with you without malice, often doing so one on one. (be quiet Bigboi!... you know what I meant!)When you speak about me, you are also speaking from ignorance--your ignorance. I, too, have tried to participate on this forum without malice. I try to be compassionate and understanding, yet very firm. I am human, and sometimes I am not civil.
I find it interesting that you seem to nearly brag (MY opinion) that you didn't apologize because... well... you weren't sorry. Interesting. It's one thing to adamantly refuse to say "I'm sorry" when new information shows us that a long held viewpoint has been right all along. It's quite another to show a staunch refusal to apologize when you make comments meant to injure (as you say was YOUR goal) or make comments that injure by mistake. I would think that when emotions settled and we looked back on it, we'd be happy to volunteer an apology.I have learned how little lies snowball into big ones, Teejay. I firmly believe that the most dangerous lies are the lies we tell ourselves. If I am not honest with myself, I cannot be honest with others.
When I look back on my behavior and consider the circumstances and what I knew then--my perceptions, knowledge, and understanding--I feel no regret. If I were back in the same situation again, knowing only what I knew then, I would do the exact same thing. To say, "I am sorry," would be a lie, and I do not like to lie, even to preserve social relations. I don't like to pretend and would rather be direct and straightforward. Anyone who cannot accept the truth from me is not the kind of person I want for a friend anyway. This is why I like Tina so much. She may not always "season her sayings with salt," but you never have to wonder where you stand with her.
It's simply the right thing to do. I thought everyone knew that.Neither you nor Prisca can decide for me what is right or wrong. I must answer to my own conscience.
Comic/writer/actor Steve Martin said: "An apology? Bah! Disgusting! Cowardly! Beneath the dignity of any gentleman, however wrong he might be." Is that how YOU feel? Is it beneath you, disgusting or cowardly to say "I'm sorry"? If that's how you feel, you need to adjust your thinking. We all make mistakes... even Ginny.Sure, I make mistakes, and I try to freely admit them. I try not to take myself too seriously. On the other hand, I will not accept an unfair burden of blame just so that you will feel better.
A stubborn resistance to do what others know is right does nothing to build esteem.I try to judge for myself what is morally right. I do not feel compelled to do "what others know is right."
Last, you said that your opinion of me has changed because now you see redeeming qualities. I submit a second unassailable truth: I HAVEN'T CHANGED. The only thing that has changed about me is your perception.All of the same can be said about your perceptions of me. One difference is that I hope to be constantly growing and changing. In fact, my opinion of you has changed yet again since I last posted. The redeeming qualities I mentioned have been outweighed by your judgmental attitude, your need to blame and shame others, and your pettiness. Once again, from what I have seen of your behavior on this board, you disgust me.
You and I have no basis for meaningful communication, Teejay.
Ginny
If you understand, things are just as they are.
If you do not understand, things are just as they are.
--Zen Buddhist saying
