by wobble 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Lacking such an experience, would you believe as much as you do now?
I believe I would; I have always believed.
Do you at least understand why so many cannot believe?
Of course I do.
They have questions that the Bible itself does not answer, and God has not seen fit to "touch them" as you believe he did to you. What is left?
Love.
Are these ones deserving of "eternal damnation" if they honestly tried to find answers, but did not?
Never may that happen!
Sylvia
Religion has no answer to such a question.
Considering the evil that has been carried out on millions of children makes me so sad & angry.
A loving parent (should he exist) would never allow such horrendous things to happen. And if he does exist & justifies the permission of such perverted evil then I personally don't want to know him.
If god exists then he is a child abuser/paedophile enabler.
Dear Jambon 1,
you are getting to the heart of the matter, whatever one claims about personal experience of God, it does not excuse His lack of love, empathy, or common morality.
the kind of god that the christians present does not deserve my worship or even respect.
As the writer of the account of the poor child being hung said : "God died at Auschwitz"
love
Wobble
That reminds me of the bad illustration that sunk the Knowledge book...
*** kl chap. 8 pp. 75-76 Why Does God Permit Suffering? ***
HOW TO SETTLE THE ISSUES
14 For the sake of illustration, let us say that you are a loving parent with several children in a happy family. Suppose one of your neighbors spreads lies, accusing you of being a bad parent. What if the neighbor says that your children do not love you, that they stay with you only because they do not know any better, and that they would leave if someone showed them the way. ‘Preposterous!’ you might say. Yes, but how would you prove it? Some parents might react in rage. Besides creating more problems, such a violent response would lend support to the lies. A satisfying way to deal with such a problem would be to allow opportunity for your accuser to prove his claim and for your children to testify that they sincerely love you.
15 Jehovah is like the loving parent. Adam and Eve may be compared to the children, and Satan fits the role of the lying neighbor. God wisely did not destroy Satan, Adam, and Eve immediately but permitted these wrongdoers to continue living for a while. This allowed our first parents time to start the human family, and it has given the Devil a chance to prove whether his claim was true so that the issues could be settled. From the start, however, God knew that some humans would be loyal to him and would thus prove Satan a liar. How thankful we are that Jehovah has continued to bless and help those who love him!—2 Chronicles 16:9; Proverbs 15:3.
This proved to be a bad illustration. So Jehovah, "the loving parent", has allowed opportunity for the accuser to prove his claim. Well, let's see, the original claim was that he was a bad parent. So, Jehovah proves the claim to be wrong by allowing billions of obedient, disobedient, and mostly ignorant, innocent children to die, ignorant of any such "issue". Satan, "the lying neighbor", hasn't really been proven a "liar". Wouldn't "the loving parent" have stayed, educated, and protected all of his family rather than abandon them? Instead, in this illustration, Daddy just walked out! As if abandonment proved that he was a "loving parent". Reread the OT and things sound really weird about this "loving parent". He does nothing to protect "good" Able from death. Later, Daddy floods the house, and at other times he himself slaughters his "grandchildren" whenever the mood strikes him.
"How thankful we are that Jehovah has continued to bless and help those who love him!" It really was statements like this at the end of illustrations like that that brought my "faith" to an end. I'd done the most I could do, the best that I could, for most of my life. I loved Jehovah, but I felt neither blessed nor helped. The more I tried to strengthen my "love" and "faith", the more I found wrong with the JWs and with the Bible.
That is a sorry illustration, Billy.
The WT should not have gone there.
How much better to say they simply don't understand.
Nothing wrong with that.
Sylvia
Is that your stance then Sylvia ?
you simply do not understand your God ? how He works, how He thinks, where He is when we cry out for Him ?
An unknowable God who we cannot understand, who never answers us, who cannot act, does not deserve our respect or worship.
Love
Wobble
I understand His deep love for us, and I know that He is not far off from us if we seek Him.
As to why He does things in certain ways, I haven't a clue. I feel the same as the Apostle Paul.
Romans 11:33-36 Have you ever come on anything quite like this extravagant generosity of God, this deep, deep wisdom? It's way over our heads. We'll never figure it out.
Is there anyone around who can explain God?
Anyone smart enough to tell him what to do?
Anyone who has done him such a huge favor
that God has to ask his advice?
Everything comes from him;
Everything happens through him;
Everything ends up in him.
Always glory! Always praise!
Yes. Yes. Yes. MSG
Sylvia
Very good points made in p5.
When I look into my childrens eyes and see their utter reliance on me to provide food & shelter but above all that, love, it almost tears me apart. They crave my care, attention & loving kindess. All they want is me & their mother. Their family. They are vulnerable wee souls & as parents we try to do everything we can to make them feel loved & secure.
I haven't felt any care from 'god' in my life. And I've had it particularly easy in comparison to many, many people who have been the victims of terrible circumstances.
The fact is that god has been nowhere for anyone, unless you are so selfishly inclined to believe that you are so important that god 'chose' you to come under his care. In that case (and I'm trying not to be patronising here), you will believe anything.
Good luck with it.
I prefer to deal with reality & fact.
I think Sylvia , that you are getting to where the great thinkers of the past got to, including Paul, that god is outside of our comprehension.
Therefore god is really "No-thing" we cannot explain Him.
Therefore how can we speak for Him and say that he wants this or that or thinks this or that ?
And what therefore, is wrong with dear Jambon's attitude of "I will deal with reality and fact ?"
And why should we even concern ourselves with this unexplainable God who does not speak or act when a child is hung ? He does not even try to tell us why.
Love
Wobble
God made man in His image
Why didn't they stop it?
