What evidence do we have the he actually existed? and I am not referring to using the bible as the proof.I am looking for real evidence that he was a man living on earth.
Who was JESUS of Nazareth really? (Christians and non Christians)
by cyberjesus 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
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agonus
I think the historic evidence for Jesus is probably about the same for Moses, Zarathustra, Krishna, Buddha, Lao-Tzu, etc. any of the religious founders of antiquity. But I'm no historian. Maybe Leolaia or one of the other scholars here could help you out.
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wobble
If you are in search of the historical Jesus, you follow in the footsteps of some great writers and minds.
If you are in search of the mythical Jesus, and by myth I mean not untruth, or fiction, but the Jesus found in stories about him and his teaching, then you have as your primary source the writings about him closest to his life,including extra-canonical works, after that, in later times, it becomes a more philosophical view of him.
If by your question you wish to show that because doubt surrounds the historical Jesus you can ignore the teachings attributable to Him, I would doubt YOUR motive.
Whatever your quest, I wish you joy, many have walked that road, none have come up with definitive answers.
Love
Wobble
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frankiespeakin
Well one thing is for sure their was never a man who walked on water unless it was ice, and nobody has ever turned water into wine, and all the rest of the miracles as found in the bible gospels and other non biblical gospels attributed to Jesus should cast serious doubt on his actual existence.
I'm sure there may have been many people with that particular name that lived in that part of the world around that time but the man as mentioned in those accounts could never have existed,, the stories are myths and if the stories are myths then so is the man.
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trustsinJah
As for Archeological Evidence, I do believe that Joseph of Arimithea has quite extensively documented his existence, and while the Gospels are a part of the Bible, they are evidence as historical documents, especially Lukes, who's account was taken from many who knew and experienced those events. It's like a History biography.
Well here is the thing. If one believes and trusts the Bible Solely, then there are far too many scriptures of prophecy which Jesus fulfilled. So if you believe this, then he is the Son of God. The Voice from Heaven when he was baptized had to be heard by not just John or Jesus but many others there as John Baptized alot of people everyday.
As well it is hard to imagine billions basing some form of faith on a man, certainly some who have been willing to die for over centuries!!
Now I do see the other side as science has flourished and we have seen an unparralled boom for mankind since Darwins mainstream evolution theory was first concieved. Just as many are honeslty IMO willing to die for that theory.
Me? I believe he was the Son of God. He was sent to do away with a law no man could keep up with. He also demonstrated the kind of King he would be when instilled over his reign. But he was also a model. While a pretty good carpenter, he set the example that if anyone is to follow an ideal, in his case his Heavenly Father's will, then a person should follow it right through, even to death. But he was also showing us the kind of person anyone should be. Loving, kind, merciful, humble, and most of all loyal to God. His illustration of how many times to forgive, and the prodigal son demonstrate the need for Humans to stop petty fights, to accept someones apology and use the Sermon as a guide and light.
You asked, I gave my opinion. I guess it is a dangerous thing.
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dudeson
"As well it is hard to imagine billions basing some form of faith on a man, certainly some who have been willing to die for over centuries!!"
What about Islam? Do you believe that Mohammed was THE prophet? Millions, wait, billions have based their faith on this.
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sinis
Religion is ALL shit. No one is coming to save you, and when you die, you die. Religion, and Jesus mythos, are nothing more than stories for the masses for those that cannot come to grips, and comprehend the eventuality of all --- DEATH...
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peacefulpete
A critical look reveals very little to nothing as far as contemporary evidence establishing the historicity of a Jesus of the NT. All the claimed references are either way too late to be of value, referrring to a different person or are suspected Christian forgeries. The 2 often recited Josephus references included. The Gospels are not independent witnesses as is often suggested, but rather the opposite. The Synoptics (Matt Mark Luke) are all directly dependent with Mark generally considered the primary underlying text for the other 2. There were dozens of gospel legends and versions in circulation (as many as 70) but the contradictory material and free use of literary license make it clear that relating "history" was not the objective. IMO after extensive reading on the topic is that possibly there was an outstanding character that intiated the legends, likely years before the NT time setting, who became a magnet for the otherwise circulating stories of Zealots and reformers. The myth of a god/man, son of god blood redeemer predates all of these as even the Insight book acknowledges. The name Jesus is possibly not so much a name as a title, as this is how it was first used in the NT and there appears to have been a Joshua/Jesus cult around the time that expected Jesus/Joshua to return to free the Jews. The "of Nazarene" element is likely a misunderstanding as there was no Nazareth at the time and there was a Jewish religious group that called themselves Nazarenes.
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cameo-d
frankiespeaking: "Well one thing is for sure their was never a man who walked on water unless it was ice"
If you will remember, there was a storm brewing at the time. The waves were kicking up. Everyone was scared.
What is the best thing to do when you are scared? Laugh or have some fun, right? Why do people have hurricane parties? It lifts the dread and keeps your mind off the fear.
JESUS SURFED.
Of course there was no other way to describe it but "walking on water." There was no name for what he was doing. And yeah, riding storm waves was pretty incredible and it was a memorable event. Jesus was very entertaining.
And if you think I am joking...I suggest you read some of Margaret Meads works and you will understand how we are flummoxed at these simple things that appear as "miracles" only because we do not know how to interpret what is really being communicated.
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cameo-d
Frankiespeaking: " nobody has ever turned water into wine"
No, it wasn't actually changed to wine, but it did have a bit of a giddy effect.
It was done with mushrooms.