Those who believe may always believe and those that don't may never believe.
One thing we do know for sure, his message is still with us, even if some have tried to change it and pervert it over the many centuries.
Who was JESUS of Nazareth really? (Christians and non Christians)
by cyberjesus 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
cyberjesus
Thank you all for your comments. Since I no longer believe the bible to be inspired I am wondering then what evidence do we have that Jesus of Nazareth existed, who was he really and where did he come from?
Wobble: Yeah the historical Jesus if he ever existed
PeacefulPete: There was no Nazareth? where did you get that?
PSacramento: I Used to believe. But I dont anymore. When I found out that I was lied to by the WT I wondered who else lied. So I discover that the origin of the bible is a lie as well. Lies everywhere. Those who believe, will continue to believe if they only care to believe what the believe, and those that dont might change their minds as well. Some just want to believe, and some of us just want to know.
One thing is for sure "A" message is still with us, but whose message it is? And we also have the message of Budha and Mohammed. What I want to know is who was that person who gave that message. Regarding Jesus I am not even quite sure he gave that message.
-
Chalam
What is clear is that Jesus is the most famous, written about and talked about man of all time.
If you want to find about Him from a historical perspective then here's a good place or two to start
Quest for the historical Jesus
The most important thing is was Jesus resurrected? If so then there rests the hope of millions of us who believe in Him.
If not, then we are all wasting our time and Christianity is the biggest hoax and deception of all time.
So what is the evidence for the resurrection?
Firstly, Christianity itself. The first believers went back to the lives they had B.C. and thought it was all over when Jesus died.
However, there had to be a big reason why they would pick up their faith and spread it all over the world in the face of persecution and death.
Still, the best "proof" of a living Jesus today is changed lives, the lasting fruit of His Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness and such in those that love Him.
Many groups claim to have this fruit but it is obvious not all do, see the many JW accounts here.
To find the changed lives you are going to need to find Christians who are born again, new creations 1 Peter 1:3 2 Corinthians 5:17 Galatians 6:15 1 Peter 1:23
Blessings,
Stephen
-
cantleave
JESUS SURFED
Cameo'd - I love that explanation. I nearly wet myself with laughter. Thanks
-
wobble
Stephen said "The best proof of a living Jesus today is changed lives,...... love joy peace .......in those that love Him"
Dudeson pointed us to Islam, those who have converted report changed lives in the same way, with the same qualities, but they believe The Prophet is dead, and they believe the prophet Jesus is dead.
I suppose that as they claim to worship the God that Abraham came to worship, you would expect similar fruits, but they are no proof of a living Jesus.
Love
Wobble
p.s If Jesus himself was a fiction,surely those close in time to him would have exposed that ? There were plenty of opponents, and we have their writings, would they bother to de-bunk a fictional character ? Having said that, he could be on a par with Dick Whittington, and the Gospels on a par with the Whittington cat.
-
PSacramento
First off, Jesus walked one water, Moses was the one that surfed.
Second:
I think that even if there was undeniable proof of Jesus's exsitence that there would still be doubters, the issue like Stephen stated is more about his ressurection than his "corporal existence".
-
Chalam
Hi Wobble,
Dudeson pointed us to Islam, those who have converted report changed lives in the same way, with the same qualities, but they believe The Prophet is dead, and they believe the prophet Jesus is dead.
Not only that, they consider it blasphemy that Jesus is the Son of God and that the bible is His inspired word.
Everyone claims to give love, joy, peace etc but does it last?
For instance, the hippy movement of the 60s looked good, make love not war, band the bomb and bring peace "turn on, tune in and drop out".
Everyone so found that the ideology was not the solution and the love, joy and peace soon evaporated as is does with other "solutions".
The "peace" of Islam comes via subservience or else the sword. Check out the Qur'an.
The peace of Christianity come from a free choice to follow Christ.
The mandate of the bible is this choice is to be preached to the world. The Christian is not to further the message by physical war, rather spiritual war.
JWs get that part right, it is just they have the wrong gospel
I suppose that as they claim to worship the God that Abraham came to worship, you would expect similar fruits, but they are no proof of a living Jesus.
Indeed, their Jesus is just a man, not God and is physically dead. In that respect their Jesus is the same as the JW one.
As Jesus said, look at the fruit Luke 6:44 Ultimately the fruit of the WT is bad, look at those who have been eating it for years, many are sick and dying.
You might think the Muslim extremists are a minority, but unfortunately they are growing at an alarming rate. There is much bad fruit there.
Read the Qur'an and you will dispel the myth that Islam is a religion of peace but rather one of world domination, "believe or be beheaded" is their message.
Blessings,
Stephen