Even if a person does not formerly disassociate the elders will see to it that the congregation does not associate with them by spreading thier "spin" on why they should not associeate with individuals who not longer choose to attend meetings. The gossip goes around amongst the elders, then their elderette wives via field service and "gatherings" and then via the pioneers gossiping in car groups out in service and in between duncan donut stops. Another good way to smear the reputation of one who no longer attends is through the children in the congregations. The parents discuss during family bibile studies and at meal times, why so-and-so who is no longer at the meetings, and that they are no longer to associate with so-and-so's kids because they are bad association. I actually got a letter from a long time friend who told us that we were worthy of the same judgement as Korah in the Bible for not staying in the congregation, that "we can't put unfaithful ones to death anymore because it is against the law, so we just view them as dead. That person informed us that their child would still associate with our child only if they could pick her up and bring her to the kingdom hall with other upbuilding association. I said no thanks, my child would not be brought to a place where hatred and intolerance of her parents would be taught. My advice is to set this elder straight through his own literature and then, run for your life. You may also want to visit this address regading WT literature preaching the same intolerance as a dangerous cult. http://.intrex.net/tallyman/WT_Evil.html The information that appears in these Watchtower publications are very telling of what this religion uses as thought control through fear of abandonment of God, the congregation, and condemnation to bloody destruction. Kind of like Bin Ladens point of view.
Disassociating==shunning...yes or no???
by sadiejive 19 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
mustang
Uummm, let's see....
The Scripture alluded that "Christians would show love amongst themselves". I have frequently seen that phrase in the WT.
Further, the Scripture says that "love does not keep account of injury".
To join JW's you have to accept DF'ing/DA'ing; see the Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry Pages 150-151 of the 1983 edition of that book, as quoted by OutNFree (TNX OUT...). Also, the chain of logic OutNFree noted is required: study, answer questions, baptized & U R HOOKED.
OK, you & some other person have followed the by-laws & joined the corporation...
You & this other party are or have been associated & should have/could have 'shown love amongst yourselves'...
The 'someone else'/'other party' is DA'd:
The DA'd party is ASSUMED to have done something wrong and INJURY-ious.
You are now required to remember who the other party is and KEEP ACCOUNT OF SOME undisclosed/supposed INJURY.
By the above Scripture, you are not showing love.
And the one not showing love is not of the Christian congregation that the writer was speaking about.
While some are certain to disdain this logic, it is good enough for one striving to maintain a simple and direct Bible based faith.
In light of such principles of logic as Occam's razor (the simplest answer is most likely the correct one), the critic is more likely to be in the clear than the defender of a complex, confusing and frequently changed system of belief, such as the JW's strive to maintain. (Note the complicated, confusing and obscured system of rules that OutNFree referred to above. Remember, OutNFree pointed to one of how many DOZEN questions???)
In short, JW's are less than likely to be Christians, more than likely to be Pharisees and overall are lacking in love.
Mustang
-
Mulan
Everyone here is telling you the truth, Sadie.
Ask another elder, and see if they tell you the same thing. Be sure you use the word disassociated, and that it is after you are baptized. Before that step, they won't shun you if you stop.Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers -
Pierced Angel
Sadie,
You will be shunned if you da yourself. I da'd a couple months ago and one of my closest friends (one who I talked to for a few hours earlier that week about my doubts) sent my cookbooks back to me by US Mail instead of driving the 2 minutes to come over and drop them off in person. Another mother I used to babysit for and bring the kids over to their house walked by me like I wasn't there, so it's true, you will be shunned.
Of course, I knew this would happen. No one told me it wouldn't. I'm surprised he told you otherwise. I hadn't been to many meetings in the last few months and already people were less receptive to me and my children weren't invited to a couple parties, so we weren't missed anyhow.
I am thankful to be gone from amongst those people.
Thankfully I have a very supportive husband and family (well, minus my mother who is still in the cult, but that's life.)Anne
-
Pierced Angel
Sadie,
You will be shunned if you da yourself. I da'd a couple months ago and one of my closest friends (one who I talked to for a few hours earlier that week about my doubts) sent my cookbooks back to me by US Mail instead of driving the 2 minutes to come over and drop them off in person. Another mother I used to babysit for and bring the kids over to their house walked by me like I wasn't there, so it's true, you will be shunned.
Of course, I knew this would happen. No one told me it wouldn't. I'm surprised he told you otherwise. I hadn't been to many meetings in the last few months and already people were less receptive to me and my children weren't invited to a couple parties, so we weren't missed anyhow.
I am thankful to be gone from amongst those people.
Thankfully I have a very supportive husband and family (well, minus my mother who is still in the cult, but that's life.)Anne
-
JWinSF
Yup, the end result is the same regarding shunning.
However, to add something that is not documented in the JW literature, the DAd person [from what I've been told] has a far more difficult time of getting reinstated than a DFd person. They [from what I've heard] view a person who was DFd as having been spiritually weak. But a DAd person has deliberately chosen to not be a JW and that's a far greater "no-no".
Again, nothing from personal experience, just what I've heard. As for me, I DAd and have not had regrets for so doing.
-
sadiejive
Thanks for all of the input.
Perhaps, he misunderstood my question. Is there a difference between someone who openly DAs themselves or slowly fades out as Simon says (no pun intended)? Maybe he thought I was speaking in "fading out" terms....but I am positive that I used the word "disassociate".
Also, how do you refute that scripture (and, of course, I can't think of it right now) where Paul advises that church (and, of course, I can't remember which one right now) not to even say a greeting to that man who was sinning with his fathers wife?? I think there is another one in Matt...you know, the ones they use to support it. I've tried to show my hub (who is involved in this way more than myself) some scriptures about forgiveness and love and it as if, these "couple" of scriptures that they use to support the act of shunning override the ones I show him. Any advice on this??
sadie
-
Steven
Hi Sadiejive,
Am just going out so can't look this up properly but two points as far as I remember them:-
1. The scripture you are talking about with the man sinning with his father's wife I am sure they would use for disfellowshipping - i.e. where something has been done that is scripturally wrong. Disassociating oneself when you haven't done anything scripturally wrong but just don't agree with the organisation anymore is really different so they should not use this scripture to shun someone - however I am sure they do sometimes.
2. My wife & I disassociated ourselves 3 months ago & we have been shunned since then. However for us, after the initial "awkwardness" you feel when someone you knows acts as if you are not there wore off, then we feel fine about it whereas I am sure that witnesses who still shun us feel awkard every time.
We don't have a problem & would quite happily talk to them if they wanted whereas they won't - hence their problem not ours!!!!
Hope this helps - whatever you do think carefully because you must be sure what you believe rather than accepting something which others believe & seems to get changed regularly!
I have just finished reading a book by a ex-JW Governing Body member (Ray Franz) called "Crisis of Conscience". This gives a good insight on the JW world - if you haven't read it then perhaps take a look.
Steven.
-
david_10
Hello,Sadie. Hope you're doing OK. You said......
Perhaps,he misunderstood my qestion....
No,he did not misunderstand your question. He knows exactly what you're asking and he's hedging. The end result of disfellowshipping and disassociating are the very same. And it all depends on whether you are baptized or not. What Mulan said a little bit ago is true. (Just a suggestion,but you might go back and read some of Mulan's old posts. She has apparently had a lot of experience and is one of the wiliest cats in the jungle. Her female perspective on the organization might help you a lot.} But everything changes after baptism. Before baptism,one is shown love and compassion and understanding for the human weaknesses and foibles that one may have. After baptism,they own you and you'll have to tow the line. And there is not much room for error. So,please, ask the elder a lot more questions and don't be shy about cornering him,if that's what it takes,to get a straight answer.David
-
Mulan
Sadie, the scripture you referred to, about the man sinning with his father's wife is the one they use, as another poster said. But, the times were such, that they met in private homes, in small groups, and ate a meal, when they got together. When it became known that this man was sinning in a way, that was truly wrong, to everyone in that community, not just the Christians, they were advised to not include him in their gatherings. Later, after he had corrected his life, we assume, Paul admonished them to forgive him, so he was not overtaken by sadness. This is a far cry from how it is done now. It's almost like "make them overly sad, so they have to come back."
They take a scripture here and there, and twist it. A person who no longer believes what the JW's teach, cannot in any way, be put in the same category as a fornicator, an adulterer, or a murderer. That is what the other scriptures they use, are referring to.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers