I have the elders in my hall and the CO lie right to my face over having three child molesters in my hall. Well come to think of the whole body of elders lied to me before we moved to this hall and I told them I had a hard time being around pedophiles they all told me that they would be there to help me and the very first thing they did was make my husband a book study overseer of a level 3 sex offender. A lot of help that was.
Is it really okay for a JW to lie?
by dissed 40 Replies latest jw friends
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carla
Lie: Definition
*** Insight, Volume 2 pp.244-5 Lie ***
LIE
The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. A lie need not always be verbal. It can also be expressed in action, that is, a person may be living a lie.
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Especially serious have been the religious lies, as they have endangered the future life of persons deceived by them. Said Jesus Christ: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one you make him a subject for Gehenna twice as much so as yourselves." (Mt 23:15) The exchange of God's truth for "the lie," the falsehood of idolatry, can cause a person to become a practicer of what is degrading and vile.-Ro 1:24-32.
[…]
While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.God's Word commands: "Speak truth each of you wish his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25). This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive (The Watchtower Je 1, 1960:351-352).
They then state "we may not tell a falsehood," but this refers to their definition of a falsehood. The May 1, 1957 Watchtower adds that,
Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent… So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary; it does much good (p. 284-285).
That they are specifically teaching lying as the word is normally used in English is illustrated by their discussion about the account of Abraham who, when near Egypt, told Sarah to "hide the fact" that she was his wife (Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1956, p. 78). The Watchtower notes that years later when Abraham was in this Philistine country of Gerar, Abraham repeated the lie about Sarah, blatantly claiming that his wife "is my sister." This, the Watchtower concludes, is not lying because "Abraham represented Sarah as his sister to prevent the life of Jehovah's prophet… But critics… view Abraham wholly as a lying, prevaricating, weakling coward" (Feb. 1, 1956, p. 79).
The History of This Doctrine (partial quote from paper by Dr. Bergman on Rick Ross site)
Some details on the origin of this now infamous Watchtower theocratic war doctrine are related by Frakes:
There is always the possibility that new interpretations of Jehovah's word will be presented at the assemblies by …the Watchtower Society, new revelations based on temporal developments which prove the validity of the Society's tenets. In his Sunday-morning discourse on "Cautious as Serpents among Wolves," … Franz interpreted certain Old Testament passages as proving that when it meant preservation of his own, Jehovah approved lying to one's enemies; hence, such lying is not to be condemned so long as it is addressed to outsiders. Thereupon the chairman thanked him as the agent of the Watchtower Society for the "new light" he had brought (1955, p. 819).
Actually this doctrine was hinted at before 1955. A 1936 Watchtower publication defined a lie as "a false statement by one to another one who is entitled to hear and to know the truth, and which false statement tends to work injury to the other" (Rutherford, 1936, p. 177). Sherrill defined this doctrine as follows: "Lying is part of "theocratic war strategy.' A JW can lie to someone if they are not entitled to know the truth" (1955, p. 56). The teaching that "the truth should be told" only to those who have "a right to know" includes all Watchtower opposers and critics, none who have a right to know the truth:
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Chalam
John 8:44 (New International Version)
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The WT teach deception in their "Theocratic Warfare". As others have shown, ask them at the door some straight questions and they will be most evasive.
Blessings,
Stephen
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teel
if one is not so entitled we may be evasive
Why, pray tell, "may we be"? What's wrong with a simple "that is none of your business"? If he's not entitled to the truth, why does that entitle me to tell lies?
As Stephen said, we know who is the father of lies... and these are his children. Edit: for clarification by "children" I'm refering to the ones this idea is originating from, not the average JW, they're just caught in the web of lies.
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fokyc
NO, not according to their published and studied material;
2006 "Live With Jehovah's Day In Mind" - page 114 'Tell Others The Truth',
2008 "Keep Yourselves In God's Love" - Ch.14 Be Honest In ALL Things
Both of these study books are VERY clear it is NOT OK for JW's to lie.
Unfortunately this is not what actually happens.
Elders regularly lie and are then backed up by other Elders, then by the CO and then by the DO.
Based on the fact that Elders and JW's do not lie, so now even lies are the truth!
My wife's elders now have to lie about the instructions printed by the GB etc. because they originally lied.
fokyc
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asilentone
they are so FUCKED up!
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Chalam
not the average JW, they're just caught in the web of lies.
Sure, I agree. However, a JW must examine their conscience. If they see evidence of falsehood in the message it is up to them to check out the rest of it whatever the consequences. If they continually sweep it under the carpet then they have love falsehood rather than truth.
No wonder Paul says this twice in quick sucession
Galatians 1:8-9 (English Standard Version)
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
JWs, should examine the gospel as told by the WT against the bible (preferably not the WT bible).
I am afraid JWs are accursed and the message they bring brings the same problem to those who receive it.
2 John 1:7-10 (Contemporary English Version)
7 Many liars have gone out into the world. These deceitful liars are saying that Jesus Christ did not have a truly human body. But they are liars and the enemies of Christ. 8 So be sure not to lose what we have worked for. If you do, you won't be given your full reward. 9 Don't keep changing what you were taught about Christ, or else God will no longer be with you. But if you hold firmly to what you were taught, both the Father and the Son will be with you. 10 If people won't agree to this teaching, don't welcome them into your home or even greet them.
For the record, I have no problem saying hello to JWs and them coming into my home. However, I do not received their message and I counteract it with the very bible they contradict.
Blessings,
Stephen
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carla
Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 (Published in 1988), Pages 244-245:
Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth
[...] While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.
The Watchtower, August 15, 2001- Sarai could say that she was Abram's sister because she really was his half sister. (Genesis 20:12) Furthermore, he was not under obligation to divulge information to people who were not entitled to it
Awake!, February 8, 2000 Issue, Page 21:
Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us
A Reporter's Comment from the Australian "Sunday" Program Television Show called "Silent Witnesses", which aired on Television on September 22nd, 2002 :
"Officially, the [Jehovah's Witness] church denies all knowledge of the concept of theocratic warfare"
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LUKEWARM
*** Watchtower, 1955, 6/1 pp. 329-330 Jehovah's Witnesses--A Religion Without Ministers? ***
Thank you Fatfreek for posting that - I had no idea that they ever made reference to the trial in the publications!
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sammielee24
Yes. It is sanctioned by the WTS and labelled 'theocratic warfare'. If a situation requires a JW to lie in order to promote the Society in some way, it is their obligation. The Society and the GB are God and therefore, one must honor God and prove this by support.
That form of thinking is why, when I have engaged in direct conversation with members at the door and I bring up shunning - they look me in the eye and tell me they don't do that. I am trying to bring dishonor to them and they must try and deflect it. Ditto when I provided proof of child molestation cases against the Society that was reported in news - I'm told it's all lies against them.
Lies are sanctioned but most especially, lying to oneself is a condition of membership, since many people sooner or later lie to themselves about just how deeply they have been hurt over a lifetime of lost opportunity, growth, love, relationships and family by the tentacles of the religion. One must continue to lie in order to reduce the pain of reality and keep the faith. Sadly a JW doesn't see it as such - if they dwell on it they are weak. sammieswife.