Actually Leolaia admitted she only studied Greek for 2 years at a University, that's hardly a scholar.
I didn't "admit" that. I stated it. What's your background in Greek? Nor have I ever claimed to be a scholar of Greek or the Bible (tho I am a scholar of linguistics which I currently teach at university level), and I have always corrected those who said otherwise. I also didn't say that I studied Greek only at a university; I also study it along with other languages on my own.
That's just flat out wrong, I would explain why but I don't think with just 2 years of "University Level" Greek you would understand.
That's a nice insult, but you fail to explain why. I do wonder if you have the knowledge to explain why because your OP, as I pointed out, is painfully naive about Greek cases. You have not yet acknowledged the fact that your OP ignored wholly the use of the nominative for address in Greek (which also exists in Latin), which undermines the specific argument you gave. Of course, someone as ignorant about Greek as myself couldn't possibly explain further why the accusative would be expected in John 13:13 if the phrase in question didn't have vocative or appellative force (both falling under the nominative of address), hmmm???? Gee, let's see if I could possibly support my argument. I fired up the TLG (you know what that is, right?) and did a syntactic search for verbs similar to what is in John 13:13 with the accusative me directly following. Notice there that the nominative is not in apposition to another nominative and the other uses of independent nominatives (e.g. pendent, absolute, etc.) do not fit in that context as the appellative does, licensed as it is by the verb (a verb of calling). So does the name of what a person is called occur in the accusative if it is non-appellative? Seems that Josephus has Naomi telling Ruth, " 'you might more truly call me Mara (Maran kaleite me)', for Naomi signifies 'happiness' in the Hebrew language and Mara signifies 'sorrow' (sémainei Mara de odunén)" (Antiquitates 5.323). Here the feminine name is Mara when used in the nominative and Maran when used in the accusative, and there the use is clearly non-appellative. And what is this? Photius in his commentary on the gospel of John parapharases what Jesus said in response to the grumblers in John 6 (who asked, "Is this not the son of Joseph?"), "you call me the son of Joseph (kaleite me huion tou Ióséph)" (Comentarii in Joannem, fr. 43.8), seems that here the accusative is used, doesn't it? But what do I know. Oh but look at this! Gregorius Nyssenus even paraphrases John 13:13 in a non-appellative fashion: "For he said, 'You call me Lord and Teacher' (humeis kaleite me kurion kai didaskalon)" (Contra Eunomium 3.8.45). Gee, he rephrases it in the accusative! Why would he ever want to do that?
And funny too how my "flat-out wrong" opinion just happens to be echoed widely among Bible "scholars"! Just a few I looked up:
"In the mouth of the Disciples, ho kurios corresponded with the title rb, and didaskalos with mr'; how decidedly Christ claimed this high position among them, is shown by Matt. xxiii. 8. The nominative in Greek and Hebrew is also used for the vocative" (August Tholuck, Commentary on the Gospel of John, 1859, p. 322).
"At ver. 13, you call me properly signifies: you thus designate me when you address me" (Frederic L. Godet, Commentary on the Gospel of St. John, Vol. 3, 1896, p. 107).
"The nominative is thus sometimes retained even when in apposition with other cases, as in John 13:13, phóneite me ho didaskalos kai kurios, where it is practically a quotation" (A. T. Robertson, A Short Grammar of the Greek New Testament, 1909, p. 90).
"phónein (see on 1.48) is the word regularly used by Jn. for calling a person by his name or title.... ho didaskalos, ho kurios are called by the grammarians titular nominatives" (John H. Bernard, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel according to St. John, Vol. 2, 1967, p. 465).
"ho didaskalos kai ho kurios. These words are nominative, not accusative (second object of phóneite); they are therefore the articular nominative used for the vocative; cf. M. 1, 70; B.D., §§ 143, 147" (C. K. Barrett, Gospel According to St. John, 1978, p. 443).
"Observe that ho didaskalos and ho kurios are nominative for vocative" (George Beasley-Murray, Word Biblical Commentary on John, 1999, p. 229).
"The 'articular nominative' (not an accusative) here functions as a vocative" (Craig S. Keener, The Gospel According to John, 2003, p. 910).
All of you guys seem to be suffering from the same problem, those who still believe in the Bible and those who don't alike. You guys left the JWs where you guys whole heartily believed some ridiculous non-scriptural teachings such as 1914,144,000 etc. Now some of you joined another man made religion Protestantism/Catholicism and now fully support and defend some more ridiculous teachings as much as you did the JW teachings! When you read John Chapter 20, you are so brainwashed .... Everything you learned about the Bible in your life was through someone telling you what to believe, not through any studying or research on your part. You guys are sheep who can't think for themselves.
This tells us quite well what you think of us, but it does not make a logical argument.
When you read John Chapter 20, you are so brainwashed that you can even see that the whole chapter is about Thomas finally believing Jesus was resurrected, not Jesus' identity.
How odd, because little brainwashed old me thought that what Thomas had trouble believing is that the other disciples saw the Lord (i.e. the identity of the man they saw as the Lord). Oh wait, that's what it says in v. 24: "So the other disciples told him, 'We have seen the Lord!' ". So when Thomas confesses "My Lord and my God," the antecedent for "Lord" (kurios) is right there in v. 24. Thomas is finally acknowledging that this person that all the other disciples already believed was the "Lord" IS IN FACT THE LORD. Saying it to his face even. Kind of like a nominative of address. Oh wait, I'm a brainwashed sheep who cannot think for myself.
